Not strictly related to the Antarctic Fire Department, but if you're interested in the remoteness aspect of it - you'll likely enjoy reading https://brr.fyi/ which is an account of living/working at the South Pole and has been featured on HN several times in the past.
I've looked into this before, and it seems like they got Starlink recently-ish (within the past couple years or so). A google search of "inurl:reddit mcmurdo starlink" brings up a few hits from /r/antarctica.
Antarctica, simultaneously, seems like the hardest place in the world for fire to do it's thing (Everything is ice) and the worst place in the world to be a fire fighter (your hose is full of ice).
I'm probably stating the obvious, but any human stuff is definitely flammable. What do they do for heat anyway? I'd imagine they use oil or gas, which sounds like a big logistic challenge away from any ports.
Anyway, I'd imagine they mainly get oil/gas fires or electrical fires, for which it'd be better to use foam or whatever is best for electrical. If they use water, they'd keep the hoses dry and warm and use a de-icer like glycol.
> I'm probably stating the obvious, but any human stuff is definitely flammable.
It is also very dry.
> What do they do for heat anyway?
Waste heat from the diesel gensets providing our electricity, supplemented by additional diesel burners.
> big logistic challenge away from any ports
It is, we (Davis station) have storage for about a year and a half worth of fuel, and refuel via icebreaker bunkerage once a year.
> Anyway, I'd imagine they mainly get oil/gas fires or electrical fires, for which it'd be better to use foam or whatever is best for electrical. If they use water, they'd keep the hoses dry and warm and use a de-icer like glycol.
We use dry chemical extinguishers as a first response. Most buildings have sprinklers and sensitive areas have hi-fog. We have a Hagglund (tracked vehicle) with a water tank and pump and can hook up to the ring main at hydrants around station.
Unlike McMurdo we don't have dedicated fire-fighters so we all got a week of firefighting training before departure and a third of the station is on call at any time as the emergency response team.
We have CO2 extinguishers near server rooms and switchboards and I believe some of the electrical infrastructure does use gaseous suppression.
But yes, if a fire alarm occurs: the entire station gathers at the muster point while the on call ERT goes to the fire cold porch and the emergency vehicle shelter. From there the on duty team lead and an electrician don fire turnout gear and take dry chem fire extinguishers to the site of the alarm, the first BA team don their breathing apparatus and follow the instructions of the team lead and the second BA team prepares the firefighting Hagglund for deployment.
> Do you know of any notable fire events at your station?
Not at my station, Davis. Mawson has had a few historically but I think the program overall has avoided any fires that threatened life or property for a few decades.
There was a fire in the engine room of the icebreaker MPV Everest that retrieved the Davis crew a few years ago and the ERT from the station assisted in firefighting.
> Are you accessing this site via satellite from there?
Yes, there are no fibre cables to Antarctica. We have a connection provided by the government using multiple satellite links as backhaul (ANARESAT, some alternate geostationary satellite and soon Starlink) plus one of the expeditioners* has a personal Starlink that we contribute to and utilise communally.
* unlike other Antarctic programs, Australia has decided to stick with the 'expeditioner' title from the olden days of exploration.
> the hardest place in the world for fire to do it's thing (Everything is ice)
I wondered, as IIRC newspaper doesn't burn (sustained) on top of Everest (9 km)... But it seems trash is burned (or buried) in "highest permanently inhabited place" La Rinconada Peru (5 km). South Pole is only 3 km, and Antarctica's Mount Vinson is 5 km. Though nicely cold. Anoxic caves like Movile Cave seem a pO2 equivalent of 6 to 9 km.
Pursuant to sub-paragraph (b) of article 3 of Annex II to the Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty[1], a permit to "kill, injure, capture, handle or molest" penguins may be issued "to provide specimens for…other…cultural institutions or uses," which could arguably include bowling.
Hard to find a good source, but this listicle [0] mentions wages around $150.000 for jobs like refueler, cook, communications officer, plumber, sparkie etc, and over 200K for a doctor or station leader. There's perks, bonuses etc on top of that. I wonder if they pay for their own room and board or if that's one of the perks; given they have a cook I suspect they have communal food at least.
I happen to be in Antarctica right now employed by the Australian program that you linked to.
> There's perks, bonuses etc on top of that.
No, the 150,000-170,000 pay range for most of us (everyone but the station leader and doctor) is inclusive of all our allowances. There are a few extra duties like deputy station leader and fire chief that get an additional allowance.
> I wonder if they pay for their own room and board or if that's one of the perks; given they have a cook I suspect they have communal food at least.
All food and accomodation (and utilities, internet, phone calls, recreational equipment and trips, cold weather survival clothing) is provided to us. I have essentially zero expenses.
This is both incredibly cool and also somehow such a HN moment. Of course there's someone here who's currently stationed in Antarctica.
Out of curiosity, since I've always had the idea of visiting one day, what do you reckon is the most feasible way to do so, short of stationing there for a living like you are?
Well this is my fourth time down so my recommendation is to figure out how to work down here - it is by far the most cost effective way to experience it!
I don't have much familiarity with the tourism side. The majority of tourist will go via cruises out of Ushuaia to the Antarctic peninsula and sub-Antarctic islands. The advice I've always heard is to go with the smallest ship you can as there are IAATO regulations on how many passengers can go ashore per ship per day and you want to maximise opportunities to get ashore. Price can vary a lot depending on cabin, quality of the operator and last minute deals to fill berths.
If you have a lot of money (>100k USD) burning a hole in your pocket then there are high-end tourist camps run by groups like Antarctic Logistics and Expeditions and White Desert that will fly you to the continent and then around to penguin rookeries, mountain climbing and the South Pole.
As an ex-firefighter not based out of antarctica, you are absolutely right. Sea water is extremely damaging to pumps. We use it as a last resort, and often have to refurb pumps when we do.
Recently I learned about cats starting fires. Cat arsonists leap up onto kitchen counter tops and walk across the glass hob with touch buttons to turn the hob on. A chip pan fire then ensues.
Because of the rise in fires cause by cat arsonists, the British fire services now carry oxygen masks for cats. Since there is a reasonable chance that a house fire is caused by a cat arsonist, it only makes sense to take the cat-sized oxygen mask. They don't want the culprits deceased if they are to interrogate them.
There are two grains of truth in the above tall tale, the fire service do carry oxygen masks for cats and cats do start fires from walking on hob buttons. Put together it sounds ludicrously credible, verging on urban myth.
I now need to work on 'penguin arsonists' to combine with the fact that there is an Antarctic fire service.
A husky famously caused a fire on a physical control stove top when he tried to get pizza which sat on top of the stove top. There’s videos (everyone survived including the dog)
Of which state? Why would it matter? They just want to know that a regional authority has given you a test to confirm that you know how to operate a motor vehicle and that you passed,
just like renting a car.
It's incredible to think of people living and working in such an unyielding environment, committed to both protecting life and safeguarding one of the last untouched ecosystems on Earth...
I went camping with an EMS/Paramedic that did a stint at McMurdo station. He rode along with the fire crew, and one of their main off-base jobs was working ARFF on their rather difficult runway. IIRC, some of the planes would intentionally drop fuel pods, which then need to monitored while they burned off.
Ultimately, EMS/Paramedic spent most of his time performing his secondary duty - clearing the runway of penguins. They were not allowed to touch them, so they were instructed to keep their hands in the air and shimmy sideways in order to shoo them to safety. He did demonstrate this penguin shooing dance to us around the fire, which led to him gaining the nickname Zoidberg.
I’m looking through the lens of nostalgia for the internet around 2000, but I often I wish we could return to this sort of world of lightweight and simple web design.
Now introducing a brand new, declarative framework built for interoperability and ease of use. Forget bundling, transpiring, packaging, dependency management – and don’t even think about worrying about CJS vs ESM vs AMD vs UMD vs SystemJS vs …, just include this one <script> and reference $ to your heart’s content.
We can, but it involves building your own websites, or volunteering for local organizations / charities / etc to build them, or pushing for simple website designs at your employer. The latter likely won't work due to branding and there being 10-100x as much budget available as strictly needed for an informational website.
I suppose the internet hasn't been very fast down there, and nobody has time to load dozens of scripts and tracking beacons when their science lab is on fire.
Yes. A fire is a natural threat that is in everyone's interest to address as quickly and forcefully as possible. Sexual harassment is an element of interpersonal politics, which necessarily involves painstakingly slow progress and a lighter touch to avoid going backwards. Of course as we get better and better at preventing natural threats, those too start to transition into the realm of politics. eg "Why do we have so many building codes when structure fires are so rare?"
Not strictly related to the Antarctic Fire Department, but if you're interested in the remoteness aspect of it - you'll likely enjoy reading https://brr.fyi/ which is an account of living/working at the South Pole and has been featured on HN several times in the past.
Fantastic blog to read - thanks!
I sent it on to my father who spent time in Antarctica during the early 80s so it'll probably jog some memories to tell me.
I've seen a lot of posts to that site. Really enjoyable reading. Like another world.
The opportunities > careers page just links to a picture of a shed.
I mentioned this in another thread, but the website is out of date. The contracts for McMurdo firefighting are currently held with Amentum: https://www.amentumcareers.com/jobs/firefighter-mcmurdo-stat...
Does Starlink work at McMurdo?
I've looked into this before, and it seems like they got Starlink recently-ish (within the past couple years or so). A google search of "inurl:reddit mcmurdo starlink" brings up a few hits from /r/antarctica.
Here's the picture: https://www.pae.com/career
...that's either the best or the worst job advert.
Is this a division of Lockheed Martin or something? I'm curious why it's in the footer.
The website is out of date. The firefighting contracts used to be owned by Lockheed Martin, then PAE group, and now Amentum.
(edit: As proof, here's Amentum's listing for a McMurdo firefighter: https://www.amentumcareers.com/jobs/firefighter-mcmurdo-stat...)
Its a unit of Lockheed Martin performing under a contract with the NSF, yes (see the About Us and the Read More in the footer.)
Unfortunately the link seems dead :(
https://news.lockheedmartin.com/2011-12-28-Lockheed-Martin-W...
My buddy used to work there and brought me a patch from there. I felt and still feel so cool because of it :-)
Now that's what you call high specific heat capacity!
I hope they keep flamethrowers handy in case any Norwegian dogs start acting funny...
Antarctica, simultaneously, seems like the hardest place in the world for fire to do it's thing (Everything is ice) and the worst place in the world to be a fire fighter (your hose is full of ice).
I'm probably stating the obvious, but any human stuff is definitely flammable. What do they do for heat anyway? I'd imagine they use oil or gas, which sounds like a big logistic challenge away from any ports.
Anyway, I'd imagine they mainly get oil/gas fires or electrical fires, for which it'd be better to use foam or whatever is best for electrical. If they use water, they'd keep the hoses dry and warm and use a de-icer like glycol.
> I'm probably stating the obvious, but any human stuff is definitely flammable.
It is also very dry.
> What do they do for heat anyway?
Waste heat from the diesel gensets providing our electricity, supplemented by additional diesel burners.
> big logistic challenge away from any ports
It is, we (Davis station) have storage for about a year and a half worth of fuel, and refuel via icebreaker bunkerage once a year.
> Anyway, I'd imagine they mainly get oil/gas fires or electrical fires, for which it'd be better to use foam or whatever is best for electrical. If they use water, they'd keep the hoses dry and warm and use a de-icer like glycol.
We use dry chemical extinguishers as a first response. Most buildings have sprinklers and sensitive areas have hi-fog. We have a Hagglund (tracked vehicle) with a water tank and pump and can hook up to the ring main at hydrants around station.
Unlike McMurdo we don't have dedicated fire-fighters so we all got a week of firefighting training before departure and a third of the station is on call at any time as the emergency response team.
dry chem first? what a mess! too bad halon isn't A Thing anymore.
We have CO2 extinguishers near server rooms and switchboards and I believe some of the electrical infrastructure does use gaseous suppression.
But yes, if a fire alarm occurs: the entire station gathers at the muster point while the on call ERT goes to the fire cold porch and the emergency vehicle shelter. From there the on duty team lead and an electrician don fire turnout gear and take dry chem fire extinguishers to the site of the alarm, the first BA team don their breathing apparatus and follow the instructions of the team lead and the second BA team prepares the firefighting Hagglund for deployment.
Do you know of any notable fire events at your station? Are you accessing this site via satellite from there?
> Do you know of any notable fire events at your station?
Not at my station, Davis. Mawson has had a few historically but I think the program overall has avoided any fires that threatened life or property for a few decades.
There was a fire in the engine room of the icebreaker MPV Everest that retrieved the Davis crew a few years ago and the ERT from the station assisted in firefighting.
Some AAD media releases:
https://www.antarctica.gov.au/antarctic-operations/stations/...
https://www.antarctica.gov.au/news/stations/davis/2023/this-...
> Are you accessing this site via satellite from there?
Yes, there are no fibre cables to Antarctica. We have a connection provided by the government using multiple satellite links as backhaul (ANARESAT, some alternate geostationary satellite and soon Starlink) plus one of the expeditioners* has a personal Starlink that we contribute to and utilise communally.
* unlike other Antarctic programs, Australia has decided to stick with the 'expeditioner' title from the olden days of exploration.
> the hardest place in the world for fire to do it's thing (Everything is ice)
I wondered, as IIRC newspaper doesn't burn (sustained) on top of Everest (9 km)... But it seems trash is burned (or buried) in "highest permanently inhabited place" La Rinconada Peru (5 km). South Pole is only 3 km, and Antarctica's Mount Vinson is 5 km. Though nicely cold. Anoxic caves like Movile Cave seem a pO2 equivalent of 6 to 9 km.
Have you seen the end of "The Thing"?
Reminded me of this excellent write-up of working and living in Antarctica by a travel writer. She went on to live there again after her first visit:
https://wandereatwrite.com/how-i-got-paid-to-live-in-antarct...
TIL that they have a bowling lane in Antartica xD
You can use penguins for pins down there.
Pinguins.
that's actually a violation of the Antarctic Treaty, unfortunately (?)
(one of the few things I remember from the myriad videos they make you watch before you go down to the ice)
Pursuant to sub-paragraph (b) of article 3 of Annex II to the Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty[1], a permit to "kill, injure, capture, handle or molest" penguins may be issued "to provide specimens for…other…cultural institutions or uses," which could arguably include bowling.
IANAL, YMMV, etc., etc.
[1] https://documents.ats.aq/cep/handbook/Annex_II_e.pdf#page=2
hmm, ok I'll ask that at the briefing next time I go!
The positions have no indication of pay. Wondering if it's more than stateside
Hard to find a good source, but this listicle [0] mentions wages around $150.000 for jobs like refueler, cook, communications officer, plumber, sparkie etc, and over 200K for a doctor or station leader. There's perks, bonuses etc on top of that. I wonder if they pay for their own room and board or if that's one of the perks; given they have a cook I suspect they have communal food at least.
[0] https://www.9news.com.au/national/all-the-job-openings-in-an...
I happen to be in Antarctica right now employed by the Australian program that you linked to.
> There's perks, bonuses etc on top of that.
No, the 150,000-170,000 pay range for most of us (everyone but the station leader and doctor) is inclusive of all our allowances. There are a few extra duties like deputy station leader and fire chief that get an additional allowance.
> I wonder if they pay for their own room and board or if that's one of the perks; given they have a cook I suspect they have communal food at least.
All food and accomodation (and utilities, internet, phone calls, recreational equipment and trips, cold weather survival clothing) is provided to us. I have essentially zero expenses.
This is both incredibly cool and also somehow such a HN moment. Of course there's someone here who's currently stationed in Antarctica.
Out of curiosity, since I've always had the idea of visiting one day, what do you reckon is the most feasible way to do so, short of stationing there for a living like you are?
Well this is my fourth time down so my recommendation is to figure out how to work down here - it is by far the most cost effective way to experience it!
I don't have much familiarity with the tourism side. The majority of tourist will go via cruises out of Ushuaia to the Antarctic peninsula and sub-Antarctic islands. The advice I've always heard is to go with the smallest ship you can as there are IAATO regulations on how many passengers can go ashore per ship per day and you want to maximise opportunities to get ashore. Price can vary a lot depending on cabin, quality of the operator and last minute deals to fill berths.
If you have a lot of money (>100k USD) burning a hole in your pocket then there are high-end tourist camps run by groups like Antarctic Logistics and Expeditions and White Desert that will fly you to the continent and then around to penguin rookeries, mountain climbing and the South Pole.
Why does Antartica use freshwater for fire fighting? Maybe I missed it the article?
My uninformed guess would be corrosion. Salt water will (eventually) destroy everything you know and love
As an ex-firefighter not based out of antarctica, you are absolutely right. Sea water is extremely damaging to pumps. We use it as a last resort, and often have to refurb pumps when we do.
Eventually?
Yes. Not immediately, but eventually like parent said.
Is there something lost in (your) translation, or are your single word post just extraordinarily hard to comprehend?
If you had a question, please use more words. Seems like you are just being stubborn or otherwise not wanting to add to the discussion.
[dead]
How do they deal with things like crashed alien spaceships and shape-shifting aliens that can only be destroyed with fire?
Not to mention the bigoted penguins.
I like the idea of penguins starting fires.
Recently I learned about cats starting fires. Cat arsonists leap up onto kitchen counter tops and walk across the glass hob with touch buttons to turn the hob on. A chip pan fire then ensues.
Because of the rise in fires cause by cat arsonists, the British fire services now carry oxygen masks for cats. Since there is a reasonable chance that a house fire is caused by a cat arsonist, it only makes sense to take the cat-sized oxygen mask. They don't want the culprits deceased if they are to interrogate them.
There are two grains of truth in the above tall tale, the fire service do carry oxygen masks for cats and cats do start fires from walking on hob buttons. Put together it sounds ludicrously credible, verging on urban myth.
I now need to work on 'penguin arsonists' to combine with the fact that there is an Antarctic fire service.
A husky famously caused a fire on a physical control stove top when he tried to get pizza which sat on top of the stove top. There’s videos (everyone survived including the dog)
Imagine their training day...
Under "Required Qualifications" on the recruitment page it reads:
> "Valid state driver's license is required."
hmm. This led me down a Reddit rabbit hole with no perfect answer to the obvious question.
Of which state? Why would it matter? They just want to know that a regional authority has given you a test to confirm that you know how to operate a motor vehicle and that you passed, just like renting a car.
I would have assumed that the workload would be similar to what Fred and Barney expected at the Bedrock Fire Department.
It's incredible to think of people living and working in such an unyielding environment, committed to both protecting life and safeguarding one of the last untouched ecosystems on Earth...
Noob question but I'll ask it: How is it possible for a fire to happen naturally in Antarctica?
I went camping with an EMS/Paramedic that did a stint at McMurdo station. He rode along with the fire crew, and one of their main off-base jobs was working ARFF on their rather difficult runway. IIRC, some of the planes would intentionally drop fuel pods, which then need to monitored while they burned off.
https://www.faa.gov/airports/airport_safety/aircraft_rescue_...
Ultimately, EMS/Paramedic spent most of his time performing his secondary duty - clearing the runway of penguins. They were not allowed to touch them, so they were instructed to keep their hands in the air and shimmy sideways in order to shoo them to safety. He did demonstrate this penguin shooing dance to us around the fire, which led to him gaining the nickname Zoidberg.
Lmaoo this is hilarious to picture in my head. I wanna see a video of Zoidberg doing his dance.
It's not. The fires to be fought are not natural fires but accidental ones relating to human activity.
Thank you for a good answer that doesn't make me feel dumb. I appreciate it
This is the most badass job on Earth. Nice website too.
The website just makes it all feel even more rugged and authentic
The simplicity of this site is so exciting to me.
I’m looking through the lens of nostalgia for the internet around 2000, but I often I wish we could return to this sort of world of lightweight and simple web design.
I was thinking that. And really chuffed to see things like
Now introducing a brand new, declarative framework built for interoperability and ease of use. Forget bundling, transpiring, packaging, dependency management – and don’t even think about worrying about CJS vs ESM vs AMD vs UMD vs SystemJS vs …, just include this one <script> and reference $ to your heart’s content.
Even better, the JS is now scoped to the current view! And routing is now folder based.
We can, but it involves building your own websites, or volunteering for local organizations / charities / etc to build them, or pushing for simple website designs at your employer. The latter likely won't work due to branding and there being 10-100x as much budget available as strictly needed for an informational website.
I suppose the internet hasn't been very fast down there, and nobody has time to load dozens of scripts and tracking beacons when their science lab is on fire.
Raw clarity and focus
They can fight fire in Antarctica but they can't seem to solve the rampant sexual harassment
Yes. A fire is a natural threat that is in everyone's interest to address as quickly and forcefully as possible. Sexual harassment is an element of interpersonal politics, which necessarily involves painstakingly slow progress and a lighter touch to avoid going backwards. Of course as we get better and better at preventing natural threats, those too start to transition into the realm of politics. eg "Why do we have so many building codes when structure fires are so rare?"