ACE 8. I was often hungry and cold. and sometimes homeless. I was poor in an area stricken with poverty (appalachia). I lived in a home that didn’t have half of an exterior wall, and we only had a kerosene heater. Often, there was no electric. We originally didn’t have plumbing except for an outhouse (luckily a federal program forced a corrupt contractor to tack on a shoddy bathroom to the house). No birthday or christmas presents.
School was terror. I had one outfit and shoes without bottoms. A gang of boys would wait outside for me everyday until evening. I’d hide in the woods until the path was clear. Teachers would assult me. The principal put me in the hospital. The police would harrass us. The police arrested my brother for skipping school, and he ended up in juvenile detention for a year.
Sexual abuse, mental abuse, physical abuse. It felt constant. My peers fared worse surprisingly. 20 friends dead before I was 24 (including two best friends and three girlfriends. Health problems, violence, suicide, drug overdoses, accidents.
I effectively moved out at 14. I exchanged sex with older women for room and board. I continued my schooling though.
I really lucked out honestly. Getting into the gifted program was by far the most important thing that could have happened to me. I somehow made it to undergrad. A friend turned me on to computer science when I was a junior. I spent my life savings on my first computer. I had terrible study skills and only graduated because I could derive stuff from first principles.
My first job had me in a cubicle with my face to the wall. Because of previous trauma, I involuntarily jump when people come behind me. So, the job was stressful. I fired up a spreadsheet and figured I could retire early if I kept increasing my wages and reducing my expenses.
I was never good at programming, but I was great at innovation and execution. I eventually got a role director of a consulting company in 2009, and I was making $150k. I felt like a badass. But, it’s been downhill from there. I have a problem with burning bridges.
I’m late 40s now. I ‘retired’ during the pandemic. I’ve really struggled since then. I have little direction and self-medicate most days. I’m suicidal most days, but I keep going because I feel I owe it to all the friends I’ve lost.
I doubt anyone will read this, but if you do, thanks for listening.
Internet friend… please talk to someone. Use the 988 line. Mental health is only different from physical health because of societal norms. I don’t know you but please know your short description here stoked compassion in a stranger. Your life has value and meaning and impact. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for your kind and empathetic words. I’ll probably be ok. I’m medicated and my therapist and psychiatrist are aware of my ideation. I have a very supportive spouse. I live an upper middle class life. When my ideation moves into active planning is when I reach out for additional help. Honestly, I feel very fortunate.
Did not have it nearly as bad as you but do struggle with similar issues on occasion, ultimately concluding I am fortunate and have a good situation now. But you know who I feel very bad for, is the coming generations. I feel like our age group has been so lucky to be around when the computer/internet revolution blew up. But it feels like it kinda settled down now, and there is no more easy access to it for bright young people. I hope I am wrong.
I really worry about them. We had the opportunity to build an entire industry and get in early. There were few of us (because only us 'nerds' were into computers in the 90s). And, demand increased exponentially. But, the industry has matured, the market feels saturated now. We've pumped up STEM programs to the point where everyone is doing software. I want to know how I can give back.
I married a woman who scores the same. There's so much to say. But here, I think the best thing to say is that, after years in therapy, she's finally reached the point where she feels like things might turn out OK. I know that might not mean much, if anything, to you, especially in dark moments, but maybe, hopefully, it adds a bit of fuel to the part of you that hopes things can get better.
ACE 8 is very high. Too high. I'm only ACE 4 and feel like there was significant trauma in my life. I cannot imagine the struggle and hardship attached to ACE 8.
Please get some help, friend. You are too young and have much to contribute to the world. Some help and guidance will help you pull through this tough phase. 45-48 is a depressing time for most people. You will get through this.
I read it. I'm so sorry for what you went through, and that times are hard. Sending hugs your way.
Late 40s - you have so much of your life ahead of you! Are you medicated (with e.g. actual antidepressants)? Please explore that avenue as thoroughly as you can before doing anything drastic.
> I eventually got a role director of a consulting company in 2009, and I was making $150k. I felt like a badass... I ‘retired’ during the pandemic. I’ve really struggled since then.
Honest question. I have often thought that not everybody enjoys retirement. Some people struggle to find a meaningful purpose on their own. Do you think you are in that group? And have you considered going back to work?
A little late now, but I wanted to clarify my thoughts. Being “Gifted” is far from enough. My three siblings were also considered gifted, but they didn’t do as well. My two sisters were impregnated in their teens which limited their opportunities. My brother ended up enlisting and is now a disabled veteran (and active conspiracy theorist). Of my gifted class, I believe at least 40% didn’t graduate. The ones that did well were the ones you’d expect to do well: children of lawyers, doctors, etc.
I think other factors were as important to me: curiosity, academic motivation, self-image. When I was young my aunts would tell me, “you look like you’re going to be successful some day.” And, that kind of became a prophecy to me.
You are seen and heard. Please do reach out to 988 or similar for help. No one should go through this alone or doubting that they are loved and worthy. You are both.
please call the hotlines when you feel this way. there are people who want to help and are super equipped to do so.
even your post here makes a difference, it helps others feel seen to know that they're not alone in feeling this way sometimes. you matter, your presence matters, we need you here and you are deserving of love and happiness. please don't give up.
Yeah, I'll definitely figure it out. I'm actually a fairly positive person. It's just that the brain chemicals distort my thinking, unfortunately. I'm working on a few things, and going through exercises to retrain my brain. My main issue is lack of direction. Lately, I've been happy making generative art and building things in Blender. But, I'm not sure how to turn that into something that's useful or productive.
I would say to hell with useful, being useful is for tools, focus on happy/excited and that will eventually lead to the right place.
Feeling that you have a role to play, a unique contribution to society that is appreciated, is not really the same thing as useful. But it's where you want to aim. And that includes figuring out what you are supposed to do, which is where joy/excitement plays an important role as a guide.
Letting other people's expectations define your life will never work, enough people have tried and failed by now.
That might be part of the trouble. I have a similar drive to always be productive. I'm not sure how to describe it other than I get depressed when I have nothing to accomplish. Maybe making generative art in itself is good enough but if you need a goal, maybe turn it into some kind of charity exercise.
Maybe go back to your appalachian roots and chop some wood or whittle some sticks. I've found it therapeutic.
This is probably one of the things that you can and should take a lot of time with. Being suicidal is not an entirely rational place, so you cannot completely rely on your own thoughts and feelings, that's why it can be so difficult to deal with. If you are a "better version of yourself" today than yesterday, or improving other people's lives even if it's just one more person's overall, you are already making a positive difference!
Hello there, hope you are doing okay. I am sorry I haven't done the ACE test, but I am neurodivergent to a small extent for sure. Sorry for the long post in advance.
Since you're talking about being suicidal, let me help you out.
But before that, I will share what I can only call the most unique and unusual thing that ever happened in this world - my own life. I hope my life story will help you relate to yours to some extent so you feel better.
Note: You can also connect to me and talk to me if you'd like to. We don't need to reveal any identity or information to each other in any case.
I am exactly 35 years old and there's no other point of time in my life where I felt I've understood it this well. It's like I've figured it out from top to bottom and I just need to keep the consistency and balance for the rest of my life, to fill happiness in my family and actually within myself. But none of this was achieved without extreme suffering which led me to this point.
I was a very happy child and a truly gifted one. I had no diagnosis for any conditions since I was thriving all my childhood, and I was very social and had a lot of friends.
I started out as a kid who would paint and draw really at a very advanced level. There was no other kid in my entire school who was like that. I had, (and still have) an incredible memory and a very strong focus on things that I worked on. I remember that as I grew up I started seeing details in things no one around me would notice.
I was very creative, and I was obsessed with a few subjects like blocks, making small buildings, building small gadgets etc. I had that "engineering" sense of things from the get-go. In the beginning I struggled to understand mathematics, but something clicked one day and I started acing it left and right. I was the school topper for more than 2 years and when I left to college, I struggled for a bit with video game addiction. Thanks to my parents and family, they shut me out and threw away all my gaming setups for the better. Immediately after that happened, my academics came back in full swing and I was back in the top ranks again.
I also developed an addiction to porn that started at age 16. I had access to internet and a lot of free time as well, so I used it to browse for more and more porn resources, and made a huge catalog of stuff.
At the age of 19, intrusive thoughts kicked in to my mind out of nowhere. They quickly occupied my entire days and hurt my self-esteem to the point where I was kicking and beating myself for being a really "bad guy". Instead of letting things go, my mind kept the battle with intrusive thoughts going, and that enormous amounts of stress affected my looks and self-esteem. And then, the downfall began.
Then, as things got worse, I started my first job out of college and I gave up on my mental health issues. I woke up every day to see it as an ongoing battle with my anxiety, and it only got much worse. I absolutely suffered with extremely high anxiety for two years. Frankly, I don't even know how I was still alive going through all that.
I was still never diagnosed of any condition nor was aware that this sort of mental conditions actually exist and are recognized. I was always in belief that I was just a bad guy and a loser. Self-esteem took a very heavy hit. I researched and for the first time I found out it was something called OCD. And given all of my inattentiveness and social issues, I also figured out that it was ADHD.
To cope up, I visited prostitutes, and engaged in risky sex with them while still in a relationship, because I wasn't getting "good sex" within the relationship. I still had a massive confidence issue at that time, and my physical health was declining. I married someone and things were never very good between me and my wife. I continued to visit prostitutes. In retrospect I should have divorced my wife, but I never thought what I was doing was such a serious thing. Frankly, I never thought I would fully "recover" from my mental issues, but I did. My newborn kid was the source of all that confidence. He truly gave me immense happiness, and it was also the time that I realized that this sort of happiness trumps any kind of sexual pleasure and things like those.
Recently, my kid was recently diagnosed with autism and it was shattering. He's doing a lot better now, and since his diagnosis ever came through, I've been a completely different man. In the early days of his diagnosis, life was very scary, and I cursed and blamed myself for giving it to him. My neurodivergence and all the stress/anxiety is most likely the reason for his diagnosis and it didn't have to be that way. I never told anyone about any of my mental health issues and my history of cheating btw.
I cried in isolation for months, and was sleepless, and I was depressed, for not doing the right things in life and bringing my life, my kid's life and my wife's life to such a shape. I absolutely hated myself.
Depression took over me more, and I decided to commit suicide. I was so serious about it that my view of the world started feeling different, and I suddenly started losing the sense of "me" in this world and started looking at myself from a 3rd person perspective. It was weird. I watched documentaries and stories of people who lost others to suicide and related them to myself. I wanted to make sure my family is not hurt when I go. It went on for a couple of months. I wanted to make sure everyone around me aren't disturbed so I researched some good methods to end myself and leave behind what others, including my family could use and benefit from. I set a date and made a plan for doing it. When it came closer, my kid started inspiring me by showing promise and improvement that turned out to be a last piece of hope for me. Maybe it was a signal for me to stop, I don't know. I love my little guy and the things he does so much. There is that unwavering honesty and happiness within him that I love so much. When my dad passed away, I pledged to him that I will work hard to make sure I will teach my kids what he taught me, and to share and spread love and be happy.
I stepped back from the suicide plan, and I am doing considerably better now. My son continues to show promise, and I am trying real hard to be there for him. My marriage is in such a situation that a divorce at this time would not do my wife and my son very good, and will in turn ruin their mental health. At this time, I feel like I've become an expert in understanding myself. My extramarital sex has ended forever. Nothing can change that.
Will I tell anyone the truth about my extramarital sex stories? No. It took a long time for me to understand that because, my mental health and the extreme anxiety suffering that I spent with zero quality of life for years was already the price I paid for it. I do not need to be penalized any more. I am going to work for my wife and my kid. I am going to make sure she is happy and that he will have the utmost success in his life. And as someone who saw the pitfalls, I will stand behind him like a mountain to guide him at every stage of his life. Am I doing the right thing? yes, I am. So I am not and must not be afraid. If god kept me alive, there is a reason, and I am here to churn and squeeze out the best out of every day in the remaining part of my life. Here's to my story, that almost makes me feel like I have been born again.
@afpx, if you're considering suicide, think again, because you could say there would be nothing worse than what I've been through, in this world. And I'm still alive. Try to find and dedicate yourself for something genuine. After reading your story, it seems like your time to shine has started late. I would recommend to find some way of helping people out. There are many people in this world who want to live but are not able to, because of money and food. Do what inspires you. Maybe get your physical health and diet under control, that impacts a lot of well-being. Please reach out if you would like to and I can talk more. Thanks
I suffer from anxiety and OCD although not diagnosed. I feel immense pain seeing many of my personal projects left at a standstill on my table because I get anxious about some random thing and get obsessive thoughts of it especially losing everything. This has devastated my personal life and relationships. I remember as a child crying and telling my parents about this but they took it as me making excuses to not work.
How did you manage to handle your anxiety and OCD? I am taking steps where I just start and that puts me on a groove and I forget most of my problems including my environment but the biggest problem I face is to just start. I kind of feel ok when I have people around but when I am alone it is a complete mess.
I can relate to you - I've been through a lot of shit with my OCD but I have finally figured it out. I found that in my case, diet plays a huge role. If I consume sugary crap it ruins my day, whereas something fresh like a lot of fruits and vegetables promotes calmness on the inside. Along with that, fitness is another thing that worked wonders. I would be on turbo mode with my mind working 3x more effectively with 0 anxiety after a quick workout and it would stay that way for a long time during the day.
For psychological changes - I trained myself mentally to not care about any shit so much actually, and I made it a habit of giving my best at everything I do, regardless of the outcome. I was a huge underachiever for a long time and a vast majority of the reason for all that was basically my own fear of failing. Once I started to only care about investing my best effort and not thinking about the results, I started to see some stellar consequences. The other piece of puzzle is to keep myself busy and occupied. It works wonders and gives me that calming feeling when I am focused on things. Working on my favorite projects is another plus. It will be a plus in your case too, I am sure.
I found that my neurodivergence is also my superpower that helps me identify and think of solutions incredibly quickly and effectively. That gave me a lot of confidence. I've been on a roll ever since. I keep pushing myself to higher limits that my baseline is now high by default. I have mentally trained myself in such a way that success is the only thing I live for now, and I am not going to settle for anything less than extraordinary. I will make sure my son also gets this sort of coaching from me from the get-go.
In your case with the projects you have at hand, I will recommend attacking them one at a time, and not touch others until you arrive at a closing point for the current project. That will surely reduce the mental load. Also, doing things to improve your outlook on your own self works wonders. It provides positivity and self-belief. You can do this.
ACE of 8. Only child, single mother with psychiatric problems, absent dad with psychiatric problems, I was nearly killed by him at age 4, homeless twice before I was ten, no extended family to rely on at all. Mom died of Dementia at 65 when I was barely 30, and I took care of her starting when I was 25, giving up a great job in Boston.
I'm a VP of IT in a healthcare company, my third healthcare gig with this particular $12b PE investment firm. I was previously CIO twice at the others, first rising up from IT Director to Executive Director of IT, then CIO. I've been doing IT for 30+ years, and I'm damn good at it. I just cut our phone system expenses by $300k/yr, and I'm in a project to cut our EMR expense by 70% over the next 9 months. I've been a service tech, salesman, programmer, writer, author, datacenter admin, network admin, web developer, dotcom startup "CIO", and more.
I work hard, I care tremendously for my family and my employees, I love where I've managed to get, and I'm not done yet,
Hopefully this is not too tangential, but it's something that's been on my mind a bit recently.
When you had kids (or I guess anyone who is considering having kids), did you ever fear of "passing down" your trauma?
I feel that us tech workers, for all intents and purposes, have "made it," which might best position us in general to overcome and prevent a cycle of trauma to the next generation.
Yes. The fear is real, and 100% more tangible when you're holding your child the first few times. Overcome with love, joy and sadness because you cannot comprehend how anyone could treat someone that they love so deeply in a bad way.
I don't think "made it" is the differentiator here. It's more about emotional maturity and acceptance that you're chiefly responsible for another human beings experience of the world: What you put in can set them up, or break them down.
That said, I created some rules for myself:
1. Never lie to children. It's easy to make up a story to avoid an emotional outburst. People that lie cannot be trusted, trust is the cornerstone of a relationship, don't lie.
2. Don't avoid emotions. Lean in. Feeling emotions is a human right. Let kids feel emotions. Be with them and make them feel safe. Through conversation try to dissect, explain and appreciate why they're feeling emotional.
3. Hug them. Only let go when they let go.
4. Say goodbye. Don't sneak out the house to avoid an emotional outburst. Not understanding where a parent went, or why you missed them leaving is traumatic. Say goodbye.
5. Never pretend that you'll leave them. Kid is at playground and doesn't want to leave? Never faux walk away and pretend you're leaving without them. Fear is not a parenting strategy, it's abuse.
I'm sure my list will grow. My daughter is 2. I try to live with integrity, honesty and love. What I get out is pure unfettered joy.
#1 is exceptionally powerful. My parents never lied to me or attempted to deceive me. They always emphasized telling the truth, no matter how painful the consequences might be.
I’ve seen other families that lie to each other about the most trivial of things and it ends up with them all constantly feeling gaslit and not trusting each other. How horrible it would be to not have that feeling of safety and security with your own parents.
A well-meaning but frustrated parent might try that move in the moment but not consider what it could mean from their child's perspective. "My parent could leave me" should never be a potential consequence for misbehaving.
They're probably more aware of it because of worse things they've endured like it. A severe example is kicking your kid out of the car and driving off without them. Or packing them a bag and forcing them out of the apartment.
This. I was in the car with my mom and I wouldn't shut up. She told me to and if I didn't, she'd make me walk home. Open my mouth I did!
I walked maybe 2 miles home. Stopped in every store/business where I knew someone. I stopped in the stationary store, the little 5 and dime, a doctor's office. Said hello and chatted a bit. I had to have been 7 or 8. Some folks asked where my mom was and I told them what happened. I have no recollection of what they said. All I know is that I walked on home. Thank goodness there were sidewalks and that I knew where I was going.
What had a much greater negative effect was the walkathon. I was a fat kid and somehow decided I was going to walk 20 miles to raise money for some charity. No one, most of all my father, thought I would walk more than a couple of miles. So neighbors, friends, colleagues of 'rents pledged $20/mile.
Day of, my friend and I were told to go to friend's mom's office when we finished and she'd drive us home. Off we went! Thank goodness we had some idea where we were. It took us all. day. long. We went to a wedding, watched some cute guys play basketball, admired gardens, and talked and talked. We were at the tail end and had no idea if anyone was in front of us or what time it was. Got to the center of town and the organizers had packed up. We had to walk probably 1/2 mile to friend's mom's office. . . and I finally showed up at home and it was like I'd never gone! Sometimes the walkaton pops into my head and I wonder how the hell my parents were not worried about me. More now that my mother has moved in with us and we talk more. I actually asked her about it the other day and she remembers nothing about the walk other than I walked all 20 miles.
End of the world? Absolutely not. But it sure taught me about what my parents thought I could do.
#5 is the only one I do, but because I never thought about it as a fear mechanic - I'll definitely avoid doing this now. That said, what's a good alternative? Sometimes you don't have time to bargain, is picking them up kicking and screaming actually better?
Yes, it is that bad. I used to do it a lot. Didn't help the slightest. As soon as I adopted an "I'll do it for you" strategy everyone's lives started to improve. Even mine.
Yes, it is that bad. I used to do it a lot. Didn't help the slightest. As soon as I adopted an "I'll do it for you" strategy everyone's lives started to improve. Even mine.
Yeah my 10-month old son asks for me constantly(da da di da ta ti) if I'm away from him for more than a few hours. Separation is really tough for them to deal with because they don't have the tools or sophistication to understand why we're gone and that we're coming back. I had to spend a few weeks away from him when he was 4 months when my wife needed to be somewhere with a working kitchen and a clean floor and I needed to repair our kitchen and I think he was "colicky" during that time because he didn't understand where I was or when I would be back. This persisted during the week and then when I would spend the day with them he would calm down.
It's threatening abandonment if they fail to comply with whatever whim you have. It's actually one of the most traumatic things you can do to a small child - because they've learned what you want is all that matters, and if they don't guess what you want properly, they'll be left without a parent.
That's a great list; while not explicitly writing them out, we raise our kids by similar rules, and I think it's been a huge help. #1 is huge. We also explicitly answer any question they ask (barring privacy concerns). The answers vary based on how old they are, and what they're capable of understanding, but they can always ask for more detail if we guess wrong. It lets them know that there are no taboo subjects with us, and they can always come to us with their hard questions.
It did mean nuanced conversations about how not to ruin the "Santa Clause game" for other kids, etc.
> When you had kids (or I guess anyone who is considering having kids), did you ever fear of "passing down" your trauma?
No kids yet because of exactly what' you've said. I was not going to have kids until I could give them a better life, even if that means I never have them. We're actually trying now because I'm comfortable with my life and skills now.
Not OP or a parent, but this is absolutely a fear of mine. I don't think I'd be actively bad for them, passively lacking in critical areas like emotional support.
Hell, I don't have the energy or social skills to get to that point. Either I or the other person move on, so I just optimize the process.
I told you I work in PE, but that's not the point of the statement. I cut spending and improve services because I know how to spend properly. The phone system changeover gained us a lot of functionality and ease of use while cutting spending dramatically.
Same with our EMR. We can get better for less, that's what I do. PE isn't the only sector that wants to cut unneeded costs.
ACE score of 8. I’m happy, live a life I find deeply meaningful and fulfilling, don’t suffer from any depression, I have a wife and two kids. I’m the happiest I’ve ever been in my life. My teens and 20s were really rough, I spent a lot of time ruminating and just being a sourpuss. But I mostly knew I didn’t want to be like the people I’d been surrounded by when I was a kid. I got over it and stopped worrying about it so much. I’m lucky I found a good wife, we’ve talked for probably thousands of hours about our childhoods and worked out a lot of stuff. I feel like I’m continually improving. I just don’t worry too much, in my 20s I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression but those are basically non existent now.
The thing I purposely try to avoid when starting a new job is talking about my upbringing and background too early. I didn’t tell people at my current job my youngest daughter is in a wheelchair until about three months in. I let people form their judgments from how effective I am at work, then reveal more about my personal life. That first impression is so important. If people think you’re damaged goods from the get go you’ll get their pity, which is not what you want. You want their respect. Pity in a workplace means career death.
I’ve started riding my bike regularly which seems to have a very similar effect to taking Adderall. I use super bright lights in my home office during the winter. Home cooked meals improve my overall mood by leaps and bounds.
> I use super bright lights in my home office during the winter.
I started by bouncing several shop lights off the ceiling.
That was so effective, during a remodel I recessed long LED light strips hidden behind cove molding around the whole room perimeter, to do the same. My whole ceiling is the light. An indoor sky.
Ali-express = cheapest, Amazon faster. They have long strips of LED lights, some one color, some various whites of whatever K you desire. Getting more complex there are several types of addressable chips and controllers to do this. Cheapest is white arrays of the white you like, typically 8 foot strips you attach as needed or buy the accessory attachment strips in 2 foot shippable lengths, in aluminum or plastic to make ceiling/edge/window lights as you wish. Costs range for $10-15 for each 8 foot length (addressable a bit more). Addressables are made on 3-4 different base chip types. youtube has detailed explanations and builds on the various chip families. I find occasional LED sales booths at the Rancho Cucamonga flea markets, and probably at all the larger ones, with full sales/demo setups you can buy then and there or get them online and save a little. Watch power supplies and look for proper UL/approved wall warts - many are fake UL, so check for isolation between +/- and both AC line prongs as the fakes UL often lack isolation and 2 different ones 'can' have full AC on different prongs and a shock hazard might exist -be wary. 12 volts is the common voltage used and if you use USA made wallwarts you can avoid these risks.
To your point about first impressions, I appreciate hearing a similar outlook about such circumstances.
I have pretty severe scarring from a thing I am afflicted with, and it's very noticeable. I will often cover them up for the first few months. I am not shy about them at all, I do everything else with them visible. Shopping, gym, out with friends etc. But I gain nothing from that in the workplace, and stand to lose face in certain scenarios in the early phases.
Dating is different, all visible, all cards out on the table. If that detail about me would cause issues for them I'd like to know ASAP.
Concur regarding the bike, it's as good as a nootropic.
In my mid 40s and have been having an increasing desiring for no particular reason to unpack some baggage. I think I’ve done ok in life generally, much better than the course my childhood put me on, but I think I’ve suppressed a lot of stuff and ultimately is starting to wear me down. Most notably, I just feel like a fraud a lot of times. My peers talk about how they did stuff in college and before (stuff normal people got to experience I didn’t, going on family vacations and being social in college) and I end up just laughing and making some jokes and stuff but never have similar stories to share.
I’ve completely disconnected with my family as a coping mechanism for example but now that I have a young kid asking about his family on my side it’s bringing up some weird emotions I hadn’t experienced or thought I had dealt with. Idk. Maybe therapy is in my near future so I’m glad this is being openly discussed here.
Therapy is definitely the way to go here. They're professional unpackers. Plus I've never heard someone say they regretted starting therapy. I've heard a lot of people say they regretted quitting or waiting to start.
My wife had a really bad experience with therapy when she went with postpartum. It's not all sunshine and roses, and they can and will switch from "I care about you and want you to get better" to "I might need to send people over to your house who can separate you from your child" pretty quickly. Not seeing the therapist anymore produced a marked improvement in her affect.
I’m kind of worried about something like this where it backfires. Not sure it would be the therapist’s fault but in terms of an “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”. The nagging curiosity of wanting to unpack my baggage is so insanely small. I am mostly fine and don’t dwell on it much at all. As I’m beginning to think it would be nice to verbalize the past a bit and how that’s made me who I am, I’m also not necessarily looking for change and it seems overwhelmingly risky that opening the bottle may actually cause me to get depressed or somehow interfere with the good in my present life. For that reason I’ve held off. It’s still a curiosity of mine, it’s also probably going to take hundreds of hours to fully unpack so it’s a little expensive too.
My dad — whose entire family was killed by the Nazis in Lithuania in 1941 after they'd enabled him to escape to Sweden and then the U.S. in 1939 when he was 17 — went back to his home there for the first time when he was in his 70s.
Upon returning home, he became VERY depressed and it persisted for the remaining 8 years of his life.
It was clear to me and my brother that the change from his normally upbeat and optimistic self stemmed from seeing in person the very places he lived and frequented and the memorials to those killed.
> I've never heard someone say they regretted starting therapy.
Let me be the first one then. I went in with an open mind. When the first one did not work, I tried another. After two years and zero benefit, I regretted spending the time. Cost was not an issue as it was covered by insurance.
In the end I concluded that therapy isn't for everyone. Many people do benefit from it, but many others see zero benefit.
It is also possible that I was not a good candidate for therapy because my issues were super minor.
> but I think I’ve suppressed a lot of stuff and ultimately is starting to wear me down.
Unpack it. It's easier than you think and more worthwhile than you might guess. It's not some massive liberating experience but it can remove some blocks and make change a more familiar sight in your life.
> and I end up just laughing and making some jokes and stuff but never have similar stories to share.
Things like this will "get in the way" a lot less often.
> bringing up some weird emotions I hadn’t experienced or thought I had dealt with
You have this perspective already. This is actually a great sign. Too many people find out at the end of a self inflicted tragedy.
> In my mid 40s and have been having an increasing desiring for no particular reason to unpack some baggage.
ACE 6 for me.
40s is when it caught up with me, and of course kids exacerbated it for me too there was a lot of people and places I never wanted to see again, in fact when I met my wife I told her I was an orphan!
As I got older I started feeling genuinely alien to my coworkers, they are so happy and their parents loving and their upbringings wholesome. I just feel absolutely stunted by comparison, half-developed, half-grown. Weed helped me process a lot of my feelings and anger I guess, that's good enough for me but as Rambo says: "I’ve not changed. I just try to keep a lid on it".
Please consider therapy. ACE 10 is an incredible score. All this baggage you've been carrying, you don't need to carry it any further. Therapy will help you unload it all.
>any score above 0 indicates some level of real trauma
I got 1 with no trauma, but the questions vary significantly in "weight" and the one I went 'yes' on was alcoholism (and with no abuse or anything else, so it's definitely better than the questions like SA from a family member etc.)
It’s not unreasonable to expect, but also in this case the meaning of the acronym doesn’t really matter as much as the meaning of the score. The link does to a page that lets you do the quiz and see your score, so it’s worth clicking.
OK. My comment-question has been downvoted and I've been told by a number of HN readers that YES — I SHOULD "have to click on a link to find out what an acronym cited in a post means."
From now on when I comment using medical acronyms like AKA and AMA I will not spell out what they stand for (as I've always done up to now as a courtesy to readers so they don't have to sidetrack themselves looking it up) but rather will provide a link.
ACE 4. I generally feel like adult life is very difficult for me, but I'm a fully functional adult. I'm in my 40s, married with young children. I suffer from depression, but I've come to terms with the fact that I'll be living with it forever. I'm totally functional otherwise. I have a career in software, a mortgage and I'm in good physical shape. I've spent a bit of time lately thinking about how childhood trauma may have affected my adult life in negative ways. I get bored and disillusioned easily in jobs, and find myself changing jobs every 18 months on average out of sheer frustration with how unfulfilling they are. I find myself annoyed at bureaucracy, and get impatient with less competent people. I never express my frustrations with them, but I feel a lot of negative emotions about my coworkers. One day I'd like to make some effort to address my frame of mind.
I'm in basically the same situation, although not quite 40. My ACE score is 1 or 2 - I didn't have a very traumatic childhood, but I was an only child and my parents were never really mentally present for me. My parents themselves had a pretty traumatic childhood and early adult life.
I went through my 20s by keeping my self busy with work and side-projects. I guess "high functional depressive" is the term. Financially I've done pretty well - changing jobs often has some perks. Working for early stage startups you can avoid a lot of the corporate BS which has become my niche.
The hardest part of life has been since I had kids. Trying to be present for them, and not making the same mistakes as my parents.
It's really hard for me to answer this question. In hindsight, I feel like I should always have been more stubborn, more intransigent, more uncompromising. However, who knows how things would have really turned out if I'd have lived life like a wrecking ball.
My ACE score is... Zero. I think it doesn't take into account other factors (e.g. being bullied at school, or being ridiculed by friends), as it focuses mostly on the family environment.
Anyway, it made me feel so lucky to go through the questions, and being able to always answer negatively. I felt so loved by my parents (more than what I already did).
I was gifted, for sure. I thought I had quite a hard childhood, but this puts things in perspective.
Totally agreed on the methodology concerns, looks like its trying to err on under reporting. ex all the questions specifying "an adult", which presumes there were adults to take care of you in the first place.
feeling loved is wonderful. alas it may have been missing additional support. especially if the parents also didn't have certain support they didn't know about it and didn't give it, without guilt.
> What is childhood emotional neglect?
> According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), emotional neglect is the inability of a parent/caregiver to connect with or provide for a child’s emotional needs.
ACR score of 7 all the people involved in that score are dead save for 1. Don’t have any contact with that person except over a group SMS chat and it’s fine. I’m 48, married, two awesome teenage boys and doing well. Not sure why, all the therapists over the years I’ve seen with my wife are typically just perplexed by me. I do what brings me joy and take care of those that depend on me, that’s it. That strategy has worked out ok so far so I’ll keep doing it until it doesn’t. shrug
Do you agree with the assessment that having kids can help with handling of some of these growth or lack of development challenges? I've heard that from a few high-ACE score fathers and I appreciate the advice. My wife and I are heading that direction for multiple reasons, including my own personal growth.
ACE of 6, father of 3 under 7. I love fatherhood, but it is easily the most difficult leap of faith I've taken in my life. A majority of my coping mechanisms were based around quiet time to myself and that basically doesn't exist anymore for me.
Children are a deeply personal choice that make basically no sense. They are the ultimate selfless act, and much of the emotional damage children suffer is due to their parents not understanding this. They are exhausting, expensive, and time consuming... until you die. And every time you decide to use them for your own gain, it will cost them something.
To more directly address your point: children will force you to cope with their existence. Whether you have the ability to introspect on yourself during the process can turn that into growth is on you, not them.
This test is very easy for the victim of an active and damaging abuser to score 3 or less. This is at best a triage test to inform immediate intervention; it's definitely not something to inform an adult in retrospect.
Especially this caveat:
> Having a grandparent who loves you, a teacher who understands and believes in you, or a trusted friend you can confide in may mitigate the long-term effects of early trauma
While true, from experience all of them can contribute directly to that trauma instead.
(ACE 4 in my 40s. My grandparents were dead, my parents were both cops who prevented friends from contacting me and controlled my movement, my mother used my father's abuse of her to threaten me, and my kindergarten teacher had my school principal beat me so hard for talking in class that I was mute for two years and gained a speech impediment that took another five years to mitigate, and which still affects me when stressed.
Three unsuccessful suicide attempts before I was 20. I'm still scared to death daily that my parents will find where I live, learn that I'm married, contact my spouse's family or employers, etc. Fantastic therapists and found family are why I'm not in a grave.
My last contact with my parents was 2 years ago, when my mom tried to claim my dad was dying and they needed me to come home to deal with estate paperwork. It was bait; nothing was wrong with dad, and I found out only because I hired a lawyer and investigator to go visit them to confirm.
My late first spouse had an _even worse_ relationship with their parents, hadn't spoken to them in 20 years, and the only instructions they left before passing away were to not notify them of death or estate plans under any circumstances. Probably a 2 on their ACE.)
I'm very satisfied with my life. My only regrets are not getting further away from my family sooner or cutting off contact with them as thoroughly as my first spouse did.
ACE 5, though I think this is inaccurate because the quiz seemed to focus on issues with adults, whereas I had at least two instances of major trauma involving peers (and one shortly after starting college), as well as several low-grade, long-running stressors related to my race, stature, sexuality, etc.
As for my gifted bona fides, 9x%th percentile IQ and SAT scores, gifted/competitive STEM track through high school, my bachelor's degree cost me $5,000, total (tuition was $30k/yr; I wanted the nicer dorm). I often feel stupid, but apparently I'm not.
Currently unemployed (since the beginning of the pandemic). Living at home. Money is tight. Whatever's wrong with me, I really can't afford to get it treated. I wouldn't mind if I was making progress on things that are meaningful to me, but I have a hard time keeping focused, and being confident in my plans, goals, and abilities. I can definitely feel myself falling behind. No, that's incorrect. I've long fallen behind.
What I think separates me from some of the other boys I know who grew up similarly and who ultimately had more success: a more consistently positive social experience. (It probably helped that they were large for their age. Why? Enhanced benefit-of-the-doubt in matters of athletics, romance, and maturity, even if you're being weird or hyper or spazzy or moody, leading to fewer derails of your attempts to build relationships. Greater confidence, greater stability, greater shelter from the things about yourself and your past that you can't escape.)
Yeah, I found the quiz also not take into account the mother being the cause. As one question specifically mentioned mother or step mother being abused.
This excludes same sex parents and other forms of parental or guardian violence
My score was an 8. Depression of course. All the usual problems.Thought I was unhappy because no one loved me. Turned out to be the opposite. Found my own key to a joyful life at 31. Had my first child. Cared for someone else more than myself. Cut off all contact with my family 13 years ago, except my kids. Second best decision I ever made. Best was choosing to raise my girl on my own. You cant fix toxic people, but you can leave them. Later I met a woman who can tolerate me. She prefers to work, is very happy she met a man who would rather hang out with our kids than work. I read "The Happiness Equation in my late 40's, had already stumbled into my own life solutions, but that book really helped explain WHY I felt my life had improved so much. You can get to a mental place you feel safe. You only get so many trips around the sun, take them with a smile, never waste a moment comparing yourself to anyone else. Best of luck.
ACE 0. Feels abnormal looking at everyone here. I don't consider myself that successful. Very average or below in career and also extremely below average in life outside of work. Not very many friends, never been in a relationship (I'm old).
Maybe some trauma really is needed in your childhood to produce more drive.
To answer the OP directly, I'm not satisfied with my life, and from my ACE score it's obvious that I have no one else to blame but myself.
The CDC website has some stats on ACE distribution [1]:
> ACEs are common. About 64% of adults in the United States reported they had experienced at least one type of ACE before age 18. Nearly one in six (17.3%) adults reported they had experienced four or more types of ACEs."
> To answer the OP directly, I'm not satisfied with my life, and from my ACE score it's obvious that I have no one else to blame but myself.
This isn’t fair to yourself, or anyone else reading this and feeling the same way.
There’s a difference between good parenting, bad parenting, and abusive parenting. Just because your parents weren’t abusive, doesn’t mean they were good at instilling all the useful and/or important values in you.
Also, there’s a difference between blaming your parents for who you are, blaming yourself for who you are, and accepting that things have happened, learning from them, and using it as the basis for growth.
Consider how old you are today. Consider what age your parents were during your formative years. The closer you get to being the same age your parents were, the easier I think it gets to recognise that your parents might have been much like you are: imperfect beings trying whatever resembled their best on any given day.
Ultimately, try to be kind to be kind to yourself, but also be accountable to yourself. Kind accountability tends to work better than blunt brute harshness (just like you catch more flies with honey…)
I don't think it is. In developed nations I'd guess that 0 is probably the majority (maybe 0, 1 and 2). The internet isn't the best place for these kinds of statistics. If they where everyone would be depressed, have contemplated or attempted suicide, have anxiety and a host of mental problems.
There is new research that suggests that talking about problem like depression may in fact cause depression and the internet is amazing at propagating the idea that all sorts of mental issue are something that everyone encounters.
My score was 0 and I have a happy, if middle class life and wonderful family. Stressful at times, but mostly not. It's also not terribly exciting, but that suites me.
> Maybe some trauma really is needed in your childhood to produce more drive.
No. You’re missing the people who don’t post on here, which are those who have died, those who are suffering too much to spend time here. This is a high privilege forum on average, and that there are success stories doesn’t mean it’s somehow good. Ask any one of us what we thought we could have achieved with a supportive “good enough” childhood and often you’ll get tears.
There are very few material benefits for people who climb out of holes, even if they’ve had to go twice as far as the person next to them. A deeper sense of peace or contentment, maybe. But most will compare a 40 year old who’s driven their way out fully out of hell and a 25 year old ready to see how high they can go and choose the one with more runway and less desire to care for themselves.
>No. You’re missing the people who don’t post on here, which are those who have died, those who are suffering too much to spend time here. This is a high privilege forum on average, and that there are success stories doesn’t mean it’s somehow good. Ask any one of us what we thought we could have achieved with a supportive “good enough” childhood and often you’ll get tears.
So you say. I still want data to back that up. What's the distribution? I probably can't get a value about how good people with an ACE of zero ended up.
But I can see a distribution and thus I can see which ACE number is at the tip top of the curve.
Some trauma can make for focus and push. Most everyone has some amount of trauma just for existing. Higher ACE scores correlate with much lower life expectancy and worse outcomes, far higher rates of suicide, mental illness, substance abuse.
It may make for extremely driven people! Maybe many of the people with the most drive get it from a reaction to trauma. That doesn’t mean that the average person does better with trauma though.
Check the CDC site on ACEs. Or almost any other site. The data is astoundingly clear.
I feel similarly. I've noticed nearly every form of self-help material I've read starts out with some trauma the author overcame. Anectodal evidence ofc.
I feel like there needs to be something that "kick starts" you to push yourself. I had a cushy, comfortable childhood that probably needed a bit more discomfort. My parents grew up in more challenging environments and did their best to not pass that on, maybe they did too good of a job. They have significantly stronger work ethic than I do.
Yea there's a lot of people with high trauma who don't make it (like some other posters have said) - we see the survivorship bias. But sometimes I wish I had a bit more kick in the ass younger because now I'm unable to do so to myself as an adult. Artificial trauma maybe suffices - like why is hazing for group bonding still a thing anywhere? Maybe college kids know what they're doing, and the occasional death is just the price we have to pay
Maybe I'm just ranting and none of this would help. I'm average because I'm lazy and it's hard to accept
There's many things the ACE test ignores. It seems to me it has a narrow focus. (Not saying there's anything wrong with that)
For example, bullying. Or if you yourself had some addiction. Or if you yourself had a mental illness, physical impairment, or if you're neurodivergent, and more things, I suppose, that don't come to my mind right now.
> Maybe some trauma really is needed in your childhood to produce more drive.
There's probably something there in terms of overcoming difficult situations.
You can achieve the same thing though without trauma, just by doing hard things or being pushed beyond your boundaries.
Go for a swim and hold your breath as long as you can. Then, push yourself to swim a few meters past the point where you held your breath. Keep going for a swim, keep pushing yourself past where you're comfortable.
Make it a habit to do this in various areas of your life - there's your drive.
You're not alone, ACE 0 and a decent job/life but reached KHHV wizardry recently; suspecting it's common in the hacker/CS community. At least, life in Europe is pretty peaceful, even without considering personal pain.
ACE 1, I think. I don't have many fond memories of childhood. Although my parents weren't monsters, I went to school in an area where high ACE schools would have been common, and being somewhat of a nerd was the odd one out, I struggled socially for my first few decades. There was no Internet in those days to find like-minded weirdos.
So, there is something to overcoming childhood adversity. Since the rise of the modern primary system for electing US Presidents most of our Presidents had traumatic childhoods(1). It seems like most of the people who want a stadium full of people chanting their names are trying to fill the hole where parental love should have been. Of course, most people don't grow up to be President, so I don't think this isn't something that you should be optimizing for!
I think where I ultimately come down on this (and I'm a dad so I've given this a lot of thought) is that a crappy childhood is a high risk play: it might give you a slightly better chance of a really amazing outcome, but at a much greater risk of a truly terrible outcome. A happy childhood doesn't guarantee anything, none of us are guaranteed anything. But it can make truly negative outcomes less likely- though again not impossible. So all things being equal, I want my son to feel loved.
1: Just looking at the Baby Boomer presidents, and staying far away from actual politics, Clinton was born William Jefferson Blythe, his dad died in a car accident before he was even born and his mom remarried and he was adopted. GWBush had a famously withholding and demanding mother and was viewed as the family scapegoat into his 30's- JEB! was the golden child in that family, George was the family screw-up. Barack Obama wrote an entire book (when he was a campaigning for an Illinois State Senate seat, long before he thought about running for President) about how he never really had a relationship with his father and what effect that absence had on his life. Donald Trump wears much of the damage Fred Trump inflicted on him on his sleeve.
I started writing a reply about my childhood. But then I realized I would be sharing more than I'm comfortable sharing in public, I don't even feel comfortable creating a throwaway account to discuss this stuff.
Not the person you’re responding to, but I’m careful with what I share with people.
I once had someone share something rather personal, followed up with a comment that they suspected I’ve had similar experiences.
The reason? The language and phrases I use when referencing parents. Nothing negative per se, but the way in which I refer to them (example: my mother) and others. I was giving away more than I realized.
Which wasn’t so much of a concern in this context, but I’m more away of it now around people I don’t know especially.
(This comment actually puts me a little outside of my normal personal opsec, but I’m going to let it stand here)
Even something as simple as a single word can give away absurd amounts of information about us.
I used to be ashamed of my nationality and actively tried to hide it. I was very successful at it too, never had a single person identify me... Until I tried playing an MMORPG I used to play when I was a kid and was still learning English. Long story short, I misspelled the name of an item because of my childhood memories. Turns out that mistake was very specific to people of my country.
I once had my nationality "leak" just by the specific addition I chose when ordering a specific hamburger-like dish at a food-stall. Something akin to choosing to put mustard on a hot-dog kind of situation. The person looked at me, knew, got confused as I had a perfectly neutral and non-native accent, and then just had to ask to confirm their suspicion.
Yeah I think about this a lot. How much unspoken personal trauma lurks beneath anger online. When someone is angry at something anything could be a root cause but it isnt appropriate for onlookers to speculate or authors to be too open about, so it passes unnoticed. I feel all that tends to be absorbed in a two-steps-removed way through sensationalist headlines and related screeds and we don't think about the origins. Of course I can only speculate if this is true so it is no wonder we don't. The old adage is "their anger is about them not you" but although I lean towards this explanation it sounds like a necessary assumption sometimes.
I saw a comment from a foster parent that said we would find a cure for cancer before we find a cure for childhood trauma.
just because the internet datamining bots don't care doesn't mean they won't create hyper-accurate portraits of your personal life, that can and likely will be sold, hacked, or leaked.
you have 0 reason to think they'll respect your life, and less reason to help them make money off of your misery. at least with a throwaway and some marginal protections like a VPN and browser fingerprint obfuscation you can feel mostly secure.
Maybe for you, or others: But I have some past stuff that applies to the ACE score, and absolutely no-one knows about it. Not my spouse, family, previous partners, friends, psychiatrist, counselors, and my children certainly never will. I'll very likely take it to my grave.
I also went through the exact same thought process, then I thought I could at least share my ACE score, and yeah, no. I noticed that the OP is using a throwaway account as well.
I'm fine, I'm CTO of a small game development studio/publisher in the south of Sweden.
I was born/raised in Coventry in the UK and I feel comfortable with the idea of never returning.
I find it hard to make friends, but that's a combination of being a migrant, being an adult and being considered "very intense" by many- I pour nearly all of my energy into work because on a subconscious level I am terrified of going back to those conditions. And the state of tech (and the gamedev industry) is giving me some generalised anxiety.
Truthfully, the way people talk about sysadmins and devops and SRE also worries me because that's my field of activity and people keep trying to kill off operations as a discipline...
Other than that, fine I think..
ACE 7.
P.S: that test was annoying because I hit the markers but someone worse off than me could hit the same markers and wind up with the same score. :\
This test is actually fairly well validated. The purpose isn't to specifically diagnose your problems, it is to find the floor for how much trauma you may have experienced. Sure, some may have had parents under the influence occasionally while others witnessed heavy usage in front of them. The point is that even for the "light" case, that is a significant issue.
Think of it as childhood trauma triage. It is a good first pass to help people understand their past and maybe help some people understand that their past is more traumatic than they realize.
ACE of 9. Founded two successful alt-weekly newspapers, worked on world-famous collectible card games, lost it all due to illness that nearly killed me, recovering and slowly making my way back.
One thing a high ACE score did for me was make me an irresistible force, even as it seemed to turn the rest of the world into immovable objects.
I took the quiz, but am going to decline to give a score or other info. Maybe consider me to be qualified to comment, however.
I understand "unsafe', albeit this is a little vague. But I get it. Given that, I surmise that your core resultant issue is unyielding anxiety. That's rough, and arguably the roughest.
What you are likely missing is truly competent support. Which would be either a smart family member, a rare engaged friend, or a rare professional. That's what most Autistic 1 people will be missing: a talented mediator between them and the world. Double plus so if the patient has trauma (ie: ACE 6).
If you are lacking true support, you are lucky that you aren't underemployed or even homeless. In that, you are quite accomplished. Keep in mind that many or even most other people in your divergent position aren't so. Good on you.
In my opinion, everyone with Autism 1 should be considered to be at risk for homelessness and provided with engaged support by one institution or another (under insurance). And that there should be specialists trained to socially assist those with Autism 1. Not with social training, but with workplace and associated mediation. And then with expert career guidance as a distant second. Logically in my opinion, a next step for screening the homeless and drug addicts, after they get clean, should be for autism.
Relentlessly seek that support, even if you have to pay for it, in order to help to continue to assure your good status. It may take awhile to find, but the search doesn't start until it does.
I'm a little bit curious about comorbid autism and ADHD. I'd make a mid-confidence wager that you are referring to ADHD-PI. On a personal note, I think that ADHD-PI is usually if not always a symptom of Autism 1. In other words, it is a spectrum symptom. But if the meds help, then they do.
The co-occurrence of these conditions is an extensive area of research, there is some evidence which suggests what you’re saying, and other evidence which says the two conditions are distinct. I also read somewhere that both conditions are in fact part of a larger, underlying one. Here’s an interesting paper on the genetic profiles https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-022-01171-3
Thanks for sharing your insights, I think you’re absolutely right about the role and need for a mentor.
ACE is 7. Done more in the social realm and have a lot of friends and close relationships. Prioritized life stability in work over my 20s and early 30s to decent but not overwhelming success by self-teaching coding, but all of it started to unravel and I had to take years off from work to work on trauma, which really decimated my savings, but gave me a new lease on life and I feel like a lot of my traumas are processed now and I can live a real life. I spent most of my 20s remembering maybe a dozen total events from before I was in high school.
I’m currently looking to come back to work after 3 years off which is feeling extremely difficult. Places I apply obviously don’t want to know what I’ve been through, and so I have to fight the assumption that I didn’t have a job because of competence. Nearly went on long term disability but found it so onerous and restrictive I’d have rather died.
Just want to work again at this point so I can have a hope of not retiring poor - I never once expected to live this long.
I'm fine today but the decade following high school graduation was really rough for me. Stints of homelessness, substance abuse, depression, run-ins with law enforcement (some deserved, some not). I ended up enlisted in the military to escape my situation and it worked out for me. I'm in AAA games today but have had a good career in software engineering and we could probably retire today if we were willing to move to a LCOL area. But we aren't, because...
Today we have a rich and deep group of close friends, mostly formed around our children, and I pour myself into my family obligations. I'm trying to develop small communities where I live and it's starting to pan out. Again, it's primarily based around our children, but we've developed some lasting connections with a couple of other parents.
I'm currently building a 2D 16-bit platformer with my (twin) daughters, who are 5. I let them pick out some asset packs to use and, once I get this level editor finished, will have them help build levels. My aim is to get it running on a SteamDeck (will just copy the required files over) and let them play it on the TV via the dock. They've seen a bit of Mario and Zelda so far and are curious for more. I figured this way would be a bit more hands-on and they could get some sense of how the sausage gets made.
ACE Score: 0, therefore I apologise if this is too flippant since I don't suffer the depth of lows of clinical depression provides, although I've been through some unpleasant troughs in my time I'm sure I can't comprehend the potential psychological damage of most ACE scores above mine.
There's a particular line of The Desiderata[0] that says so much in so few words:
no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
It provides armour to me when the negative voices come. It reminds me that I am privileged to be alive at this point in time and help to remind me of the (good kind of) "holy shit" feeling I should have at that realisation.
Some holes are too deep for this to have an effect, but for the shallower ones, this has helped me escape them quicker.
An important thing for you and I to keep in mind is that we aren’t just talking about psychology.
ACEs cause (or exacerbate) depression, anxiety, and so on; they also cause (or exacerbate) cancer, heart disease, autoimmune disorders, and so on.
It’s obviously a lot of work to disentangle causation from secondary health impacts of mental illness, but to our shame there is more than enough data, and the work has been done. An appreciable fraction of the damage done by ACEs is physical and irreversible after adolescence.
I think this is important for us to remember because it’s easy for us to say, oh, they must need some extra support. And yeah, they do. But it’s too little, too late. They — the children — need us to stop the ACEs from happening.
Editing in a caveat I remembered elsewhere: of course the scores don’t cause these things, and of course the individual variance is huge. As a diagnostic criterion, ACE is useful as a screener and that’s about it. As a statistic, it’s revealed a pandemic.
I find this test interesting because I received an ACE score of 1, but I'm the oldest child in my household and I'm realizing that my siblings would probably score slightly higher than me... :-(
I moved out when I was around 20 before alcoholism and divorce destroyed the beautiful family dynamic that I grew up with.
This makes me want to try and understand the differences between myself and my siblings a bit more closely.
As an also low ACE person with high ACE loved ones, I super encourage this!
With the serious caveat that ACE score isn’t a great predictor for individuals: if your siblings have ACEs >=3, it’s entirely plausible that that trauma explains none, some, or all of the differences you’re referring to.
(If, like me, you grew up thinking socioeconomic status was the gold star predictor of cohort health, the past couple of decades of research here are pretty shocking!)
ACE score of 7. I kept my head down at home with abusive parents and did everything I could to leave that environment as soon as possible. Got admitted into a state school for the gifted where you lived on campus.
I've been diagnosed with bipolar and depression, but I've had what most people would probably consider a successful career, but every day been a struggle. I've always struggled with depression and feeling abandoned by my family. Pretty much have a life by myself with very few people involved. I don't talk with my family.
Decades of therapy and medication, and it honestly really doesn't help.
I have a score of 5. I was in my district's GT program [0] from 5th grade until graduation (I only mention this since you said "gifted" in the title and this is the most "official" proof that I have). I failed many classes in high school (algebra, chem, physics, English) mostly from lack of effort. I had a lot of trouble attending class during high school and dealt with depression.
I went to college a couple of states away and being in that new environment helped a lot. By my senior year I was doing much better -- still had issues and only had a 3.2 GPA but I never failed a class. I was able to get an internship at AWS and a full-time job there after graduation.
Now (at 27) I'm starting a new job at Pinterest tomorrow, doubling what I was making at my last job. I'm halfway through my masters in computer science. I don't think I have any giant accomplishments, but I'm definitely comfortable and conventionally successful. The biggest dissatisfaction I have are around relationships and fulfillment, though I am slowly making progress.
I don't have any major diagnosed issues, but my upbringing definitely continues to have a huge impact on me. Therapy has helped a lot.
> "The biggest dissatisfaction I have are around relationships and fulfillment"
Just know that relationships at work can be fleeting. They could leave, you could leave. The best work friends you have, you might stay in touch. You'll both look back on your time together fondly. But lasting relationships aren't usually found at the workplace. (Though they _can_.)
And absolutely don't seek fulfillment from an employer. You're fulfilling them - their needs, wishes, and goals. They're fulfilling contractual obligations to you through your bank account just as you're fulfilling your work obligations to them through your efforts.
Fulfillment comes from acceptance of who you are, personal appreciation of what you're good at, and doing things for your own personal satisfaction - not because it's demanded of you by someone else. Honestly, just look how far you've come. That's an accomplishment in and of itself and is worthy of appreciation. Nobody will ever tell you when "you've arrived" (other than your GPS). It comes through personal realization that you're a grown adult now, you're charting your own course in life, you can go where you want and do what you want. You're where you are because of your own actions. If you ever find yourself truly loathing where you are, you can change it. Finding contentment with where you are in life (geographically, financially, etc) is up to you. Don't like it, you can change it. When you say "this is where I want to be" will you begin to find contentment.
A lot of comments and yours are heavily focusing on materialistic and financial status. While money or access to it is important to feel safe, it is not all there is to measure and compare.
What about friends and family? Partners? Children? Activities? Hobbies?
I scored a 2 it I noticed a lot of the questions focused on physical and alcoholic/drug abuse. I grew up in a culture/religion where none of these things existed but my I would classify my family and up bringing as dysfunctional and emotionally neglected.
Financially, I don't own a house nor can I afford one where I live. My job is secure and pays plenty to live comfortably renting. I don't think I will be able to retire in my country due to the cost of living.
I have no hobbies and very little friends. None Id call good friends. I have a partner and a dog.
For me material and financial success represent dramatically increased safety. My goal was not to live in the same kind of gang infested place I grew up in. And it means I can afford the $50k a year I pay in health insurance for first-rate medical care.
I am glad you scored a 2! I understand that such scores do not adequately capture the severity of someone’s circumstances, even if they say yes to one question.
I like to think I am working myself up to a partner and a dog, but opening to people is hard. It’s a work in progress.
I have ADHD, autism, and dyslexia, but luckily a >140 iq on a good day. I’ve suffered from depression at times, was incarcerated as a juvenile and an adult. Had a physical and mentally abusive father. I was also a convicted felon at 15/16 and again at 18 years old. Was an alcoholic before being legally allowed to drink. The list goes on.
That said life is great, I’ve exceeded all expectations my parents, family and educators had for me(the bar was low). I own my home, happily married and raising a daughter. I work at a FANG company and have a pretty decent net worth. Have traveled to almost 40 countries and feel like I add value to the world on most days. I even serve on the board of a non profit.
I would never say these things made my life any easier by any stretch but I learned to cope and it made me a “strong” person, in that I have confidence I can overcome just about anything and I don’t really fear much of anything that life can throw at me.
The one thing that’s crippling at times, being through all that with a photographic memory. Closing my eyes to go to sleep at night is hard… every single day.
I don't fit all your criteria. My schools didn't have a gifted track, but I scored highly on many aptitude tests, took the college in high school classes, etc. I wasn't diagnosed with autism until I was an adult. ACE score is 0 though.
I definitely feel like you when it comes to success. I would be considered moderately successful (grad degree, decent professional job, married, kids, etc) but just sort of average (median household income for our area). It doesn't feel like "I made it" yet. It's been a real struggle to keep my job, or really want to keep it. I can't stand the politics and the unknown standards that I need to hit. It also sucks that they can't give me the reasonable accommodations I asked for such as additional coaching and they even talked about putting me on a PIP this year. With the job market the way it is, I'm finding it hard to switch jobs internally or externally. Of course with my autism, changing jobs is also difficult and risky even in a good market. Also as you mentioned, these internal struggles are consistently unknown to those around me. Even my wife doesn't understand how hard certain things affect me and instead sees me as being very smart and very successful even though the data I see only supports the moderate versions of that. I don't feel appreciated at work or at home and I don't get to do very many things that I enjoy.
I'm not satisfied with my life. I wish I had my diagnosis before getting married and I would have chosen a different path. Although I think I'm also greatful for not having the diagnosis before graduating as I probably would have had a "what's the point of trying" moment at some of the difficult points.
Beaten, neglected, molested, unsafe, etc. Many family & friends died from drugs, disease, poor life choices. Read books on success & business. Moved out at 16. Taught myself programming and business. Married a hot smart fellow nerd. Got good jobs, bought a business and monetized it. Had fantastic kids. Grateful every day to not be where I woke up. Retired to a farm recently.
Took me a while to actually try hard things, because I was afraid of failure.
It wasn't until my mid thirties I started really pushing myself, embracing the fact that failure was a part of life, and changing my trajectory in a dramatic way.
~7 years later, I've got a nice house (2M), 1M in the bank, 2 kids, loving wife, and a handful of close friends I see often.
It was a tough road getting here, but life is good.
My score was 3, which isn't indicative of a overly rough life. But I was a gifted kid, reading at 3, straight A's all the way through University. Always had bad emotional problems though. Turned into a really bad porn/sex addiction. It's currently ruining my life and health and Im going to SMART meetings because SAA wasnt helpful for me. 35 and not very much to my name. Mental health issues have haunted me my whole life, and the same goes for my parents.
I've been diagnosed with a few things, but none very concretely other than dysthymia and general anxiety disorder. My mom has adhd, and her sisters have schizophrenia. Also my niece was diagnosed with autism. She thinks I have Adhd but I can't really tell whats what until my sex issues are through.
It's been a struggle, and I really should have gotten diagnosed with ADHD decades ago rather than years ago. I regret those that I've hurt (especially those that I love) and the times I was my own barrier to success or happiness.
I'm lucky to have a wonderful partner and manager at this stage in my life, and I've put a bunch of work into myself. It's been slow, but more and more of it seems to be "sticky", and that's incredibly encouraging.
Overall, satisfied with my life, especially in context of the world at large or relative to those with a similar background (makes me realize in some ways I'm pretty darn lucky after all).
Still, I feel the need to earn it. I don't feel like I deserve the nice things I do have, and I have a lot of anxiety of it going away. Therapy is currently helping me guide that and allow me to focus on the parts I can control while giving me the serenity to accept that there are things inherently uncontrollable, or even influencable.
Only thing I'd have to say is: never give up trying to get better. You're stuck with yourself for your entire life, one way or another. You owe it to your future, present, and past self to get better, and you owe it to those rays of sunshine that are the people you love or have given kindness, also past present, and future. You can't change the past, so don't dwell on it. Just try to do what you reasonably can. You've survived this long, which shows you're capable of endurance and survival at minimum. Have faith you can keep that, and use that as a rock to build a better life and a better (at least, local) world upon.
I’d say the biggest struggle hasn’t been financial independence, overcoming a rough childhood, or getting out of rural hell - it’s been dating. That was set in stone by my genetics being such trash. I’m 34 and only ever had one partner who would only stay with me on the condition that I paid for everything and would receive no emotional support.
By most measures, I am far more successful than most people you’d meet but I consider myself one of the least successful people because all I’ve ever wanted is for someone to love me and to build a loving family. Life is cruel.
I am sorry you’re going through that. I am not in a rural place, but I feel isolated all the same because I mask everything. I feel that if I trust someone enough, I’ll open up to them. I am working up to it.
Be wary of advice which says you need to be good looking to expect reasonable behavior from a partner. I’ve been told I am attractive, but it can sometimes bring the wrong kind of attention that doesn’t really provide emotional support and personal wellbeing.
Looking good can be its own reward, but it’s not a requirement for finding a close relationship, I think.
Are you in your top fitness condition?
Most of the times, looking good means being in your top health condition, right body weight and % bodyfat below 13% (for men).
I am quite taken back (and a little choked up tbh) by the high numbers that people are reporting in the comments. I can't even imagine what that means.
8, and one thing it means is we here are selected for having made it far enough back to talk idly about it on a Sunday evening on HN. Spare a thought for those who haven't and didn't, too. Your heart does you credit here; they need it more than we.
Hard is relative. I scored a 3. My childhood would better be described as one of neglect rather than one of direct abuse. I don’t feel accomplished. I feel like I’ve been moving from one lucky break to another. But at the same time I’m able to see what I can contribute to roles I have versus my peers and have to conclude my calibration for what is successful or accomplished is very biased. It’s difficult to properly judge yourself when we have plain examples of the top 0.1% all over the internet. This sets up incredibly unrealistic expectations. If you’re able to iterate without constant guidance and able to pivot when you run into firm roadblocks you’re ahead of 90% of your peers. I’m constantly dealing with the dissonance of trying to reconcile that I’m nothing special with me being the only one capable of pushing certain projects forward.
It feels like so many people hit the first stumbling block and throw up their hands stating they don’t know how to do it. That’s where things finally get interesting for me. It doesn’t work. How can I make it work? What have I tried and what other people have solved a similar problem? 95% of the time I just find what someone before me did, copy it and move on. Why is that so difficult for many of my peers? A good portion of my career could be summed up as copying and pasting things I’ve found on Google. It objectively works. Why are others struggling?
I’ll never be a Carmack or an Asahi or any other super hacker that frequently drops incredible work in novel areas that extremely few other individuals could ever deliver. But I can follow their work. Learn from them. Apply their solutions to problems in other domains and iterate on it. But this all feels easy and natural to me so I have trouble understanding why my peers struggle with it so much.
ACE 5, I'm mid 30s now, standard bad stuff, parents died years ago.
I stay somewhat mentaly healthy by being relentlessly busy. I don't give much weight to accomplishment, fear of being in a situation of poverty or vulnerability again drives me. I have some underlying mental issues, busyness helps keep them at bay and the sadness and pain has faded over time. At low points I try and remember it comes in waves.
I have a wonderful wife and young child, they are my satisfaction and I feel lucky every day. I don't expect to live long past 60 due to medical and historic reasons, so I intend to stay busy for the next ~25 years, do my best by them and try and leave a net positive on the world.
Didn't know this existed, thank you for posting, reading these has been an eye opener.
ACE of 4, gifted child who literally got the passion for education beaten out of them. I feel like my childhood, or dealings with my parents might have actually been pretty bad...but better than the present day. I was bullied as a kid, and never really supported during it, which made me incredibly angry and aggressive and I walked around for maybe the first 25 years of my life actively thinking I would get drawn into fights at any time. Doesn't help when your parents will also beat your ass for perceived disrespect, bad grades or public failings.
My parents also are just malicious, non-cooperative, myopic people, and my dad is an alcoholic who basically went my entire life never getting checked until my mother walked out on him a few months ago, as a result of him doing a handful of things so repulsive my younger sister (the emotionally intelligent one of the family) cut him off and my mother realized that she didn't actually have to spend the rest of her life tethered to this person. My mom isn't great, but good for her. In the interim my dad has become even more of an alcoholic and he sleeps for 15 hours a day, only getting up to eat, pee and pretend he's not an alcoholic while he teaches classes on Zoom.
I've had a rough go the last few years with employment/career, but things might turn around for me in as little as a few hours. It's a combination of having to deal with poor boundary management in some situations, and bad situations outright. I'm not where I'd like to be in life, but I'm not old--just old enough to consider that I won't be here forever. But every day I become more aware of how my childhood set the stage for my life.
I don't consider adult life to be hard, when things are working well -- it's just that they often don't. I'm okay with life, but only because I have the tools to make it what I want. The day to day kind of sucks.
Ace score of 8. Outside of medical things outside of my control, relatively ok I guess. I have responses to things and a perspective on life shared by almost nobody I meet, which can make things a bit harder, more so it leaves me feeling out of place because I know the world and the individuals in it in a very different way that most never will.
I was surrounded significantly by organised crime growing up, and big parts of it, and the people involved were normalised to me. Sometimes I will speak of things I encountered or endured growing up, and people become visibily uncomfortable. I often forget that it's very confronting for others, because for me, it was so normalised, it's just a part of who I am, even today.
For instance recently a group I was in asked us to recount some experiences we had at a certain time and place, and they specifically asked about crime.
Turns out that didnt mean "tell us about how you had your head ripped open in multiple places with a steering lock and were left for dead on the street" because that's a story normies can't really gel with. Recounting such stories can cause people to look at you in a very different way following it.
I have a pretty modest ACE score of 2, the stories here are something else.
I am curious is having both parents with mental health challenges the common scenario? My father was depressive alcoholic who never worked in my lifetime, and as an adult I think that was more impactful than I realized as a child. My mom just had a pretty severe eating disorder but was functional adult.
I turned out fine, maybe higher anxiety than most and way way too risk adverse in every facet of life, but have a happy family and steady work and such.
My sister though has had a lifetime of depression and eating disorders, and even though has advanced degrees is living on disability since her 30s. I wonder if she had a higher ACE score, perhaps with non family members or something.
Both of us were “gifted” and valedictorian of our small school, so up to college had very similar paths.
4 here. Been struggling with depression since 15, but got it under control since ~25 thanks to antidepressants, a healthier environment and a loving spouse whom I talk to a lot. I started drinking at 15 and had varying degrees of alcohol problems until my 20s. Never finished college - ended up with a lot of student debt and no degree. I come from a small city in Ecuador, a country which has gone through a lot of shit since I can remember: terrible education levels, insecurity, violence, political instability, etc. Parents got divorced during Ecuador's 2000 financial implosion. Dad went bankrupt, sank into deep depression and never fully recovered.
Luckily for me I'm good at one thing: coding. Eventually got out of town and found a job as a software consultant in Quito. Now I live in Stockholm Sweden. Got visa sponsored by a tech company at the pinnacle of the 2019-2020 tech hiring craze. Here I can say I'm slightly above average in terms of financial and career success, but I have it much, much better than my peers back home.
I'm kind of a loner (Sweden doesn't help tbh), I have low tolerance for stuff that triggers me and I tend to go back to bridge-burning mode from time to time, but my wife helps me stay on
track and I have developed better coping mechanisms year after year :). My life is honestly wonderful and better than I could have ever hoped for. My home country is as violent as ever and I'm always worried that something's gonna happen to my family back there, but that's pretty much the only worry I have in my life now.
If you think you know who I am, no you don't. I'm leaving major details out.
Principal Engineer at one of whatever we're calling the tech companies with ten figure market caps. A couple nice exits from previous jobs. Low seven figure net worth. Married. Lots of friends. In my late 30s to mid 40s.
You'd probably recognize some of my projects.
I was in a gifted and talented program for a while as a kid. Tested at 99.9th percentile.
ADHD, ASD, treatment resistant depression. ACE score of 5, but I feel that misses a lot of very specific trauma.
One of my previous partners abused me. That was many years ago, but I still have severe anxiety, constantly worried someone will scream at me for things I had no control over.
I'm so depressed I have trouble taking care of myself and regularly think about killing myself. In therapy for years, not sure if it's helping.
I genuinely have no idea how I hold myself together at work, it's like I'm a different person there.
How much more could I have been, had things been a little different?
Hey friend - check out dissociation and that realm. It’s one of the things that often comes out of trauma, and allows us the superpower to be who we need to be to survive and even thrive, but can carry big deficits in self image and ability to handle our emotions.
ACE 4, raised by my grandmother and alcoholic drug addict mother in the projects. I made it out only because my aunt gave me a handmedown PC when I was 13, I lucked out into a magnet high school, and was granted admission with full financial aid into MIT (and was somehow able to graduate in 4 years). Grateful for it every day.
After I birthed my first kid in my early 30s at the start of the pandemic, my struggles with depression and anxiety seemingly vanished.
I've always been very risk averse, so I fear I'll never be able to start a startup or something like that. It's always sounded fun. Now that I'm very stable and well, and ok financially (the house cost way more than I'd like)... it still feels too risky for me to leave my normal job. Maybe I'll try in my 40s...
ACE score of 7. I am ridiculously happy. I have a wife who loves me, and two (little) kids who want to be around me. A successful and fulfilling career that lets me provide for (and even spoil, sometimes) my family. Multiple side-projects/hobbies/'hustles' that I can pick up or put down at will. Life is really, fantastically, pronoia-inducingly, good. It wasn't always this way, and I owe a LOT to great teachers in my formative years (HS and some college) who encouraged me to get the hell out of the house, city, and state I grew up in, and become my own man far far away from the place and family of my birth.
I'd been on the 'gifted' track since pre-K (I was reading books without pictures by 3, for example, and had read The Hobbit in Kindergarten). I made it out (barely) of one of the worst public middle/highschool systems in the country, and got a 70%+ 4 year scholarship into one of the best. My grandparents (specifically my maternal grandmother, may she RIP) busted all kinds of ass to make up the difference. "Family drama" almost made it to where I couldn't get transport to out-of-state college at the very last minute, and my paternal grandfather (may HE RIP!) showed up out of the blue, helped me throw my things in his truck, and drove me 12 hours one-way so I could attend college (no I did not finish, and dropped out after 4 years; long story)
The fear, doubt, and insecurity of my teens led to quite a bit of learning and growing in my early/mid 20s, and it just got better from there. "Getting the hell out" was the best advice I had gotten, and I am so glad I was able to take it.
My biggest concern these days is how do I grow beyond my damaged upbringing and not just be a "neutral" force in my family's life, but a "good" one. I'd like to be around for any grandkids (shucks, maybe even GREAT grandkids if the health and longevity sciences keep doing their respective things), and a positive presence in their lives too.
I got 8. My life is pretty great. I get enjoy every day look at the world and experience things I'd never thought I would be able to. I truly had no idea I'd live this long, and whether good or bad I get to experience a lot of first at my age in wonder people my age have done before. I hadnt even ever gone vacation until I was 23 and never been oversea long term until I was 31. I've gotten to go camping, buy a car, buy a home, and see the world at a lot older age so I feel like I am still in awe of those things.
ACE = 4 here, 30 years old for reference. Pretty satisfied!
My net worth is currently less than a tenth of yours, however, because to get here I took the drastic step of moving to Europe and going no contact with my immediate family for a couple of years.
I chose to focus on getting married and starting a wonderful family first, with the woman of my dreams there, before I started really stepping on the career gas pedal, and I think that was absolutely the right choice for me at the time.
I have an ACE score of 4 and have been marked as gifted at various stages of my life, elementary, high school, college, and other somewhat impressive things during my 30+ year life.
The hardest part about being "gifted" and having a difficult childhood is being able to compete/achieve at high levels consistently. For brief moments I can be amazing at art, relationships, work, social situations, etc. But it all comes crashing down once I get too taxed or triggered. I simply don't have the energy or ability to be functional at the gifted (and even less) level for long periods of time. Even worse the recovery time from being drained is way longer than my close friends who grew up in more stable environments.
On paper things look pretty good for me. But keeping everything in order takes a lot out of me and I'm struggling to find the strength to do more and to live up to my "potential".
Scored 8. Doing fine in terms of profession and money, quite a bit more than fine. I’ve made peace with never having much of a social circle or children or the normal interpersonal trappings of a life. I strongly hate and fear people, and that’s never going away.
I went through a period in my 20s when I was very interested in talking about it and doing therapy and getting diagnoses. Did the whole circuit of the books and techniques and medications that usually get talked about. Now I’m not interested in talking about it and don’t ID as having any condition.
I’m quite happy and satisfied with my life as a whole. There are many other ways to fill the day. Probably once a week or so I’ll wake up, and as the fog of unconsciousness clears enough for me to remember what and where and how I am, it makes me smile.
Thanks to all for sharing their experiences. To me, this thread has been like sharing battle scars. I am not trying to make light of people who have actual battle scars, my respect to them too.
ACE score 5
My abusive parent luckily died of cancer almost 30 years ago.
Me and my siblings turned our lives around in the first few years after that.
From being fast on way to a ditch, mentally, financially and physically I found the strenth to leave my drug addicted and alcoholic partner.
I learned to admit amd recognize my own toxic behaviors and and took many years on my own to learn to set healthy boundaries and learn to live a healthy life. And to be a healthy parent.
Eventually finished University as a single parent with a full time job and I work with what I love today.
Own a house, a dog and have a good economy.
No means financially rich, but in a long term happy relationship and in the best physical shape of my life.
ACE 6.
I did good career wise, failure was just not an option to me so I worked hard. At school I was put into accelerated classes for gifted kids. But I feel like I could have done a lot better with more support at home. I see that people get points for diversity etc. in college or hiring, but there is no such support for people who suffer silently, and even if there was I have too much pride to let others know just for some brownie points. Life was particularly hard before I found employment, roughly from the age of 18 to 26. That was also the period when my mental health challenges were more difficult and I had not yet learned how to cope. I have not yet gotten any ‘treatment’ for mental health issues. I got some money after making some fortunate investment decisions that allowed me to climb out of poverty, it might be trivial sum for most people out there but it was a lot to me. Lately I get feelings of being an orphan, just out there on my own and not having my own people to share things with or support in life.
My wife is startled sometimes when I react as I do, she doesn’t understand where it comes from. I have forgetfulness and emotional regulation issues. But she is a nice person and helps me out.
I worry about money and the future all the time.
I would like to thank my mom and God for everything, and Jensen Huang.
Will delete this later.
Got a 3, product of the gifted ed system, with a few other challenges that aren’t counted in ACE, plus a healthy dash of what could be called self-sabotage as I began to make my adult way.
Now, decades later, I’m doing fine, better than fine actually, but relative my fears I am doing unbelievably fantastically. Of course, relative to the sense of limitless potential that the gifted ed system tends to implant, I should have invented cold fusion by now.
I long ago decided that the past was interesting but a terrible place to live. I consciously try hard to look forward and think about what I can do and not about what could have been or what other shadows might be lurking. That’s not advice, it’s just what I’ve done.
My biggest regret is not staying with my first job out of college. I loved it, and had I stayed my options at the age of 26 would be worth over $10m now. I left that job for a woman. I feel so stupid about it. I am good at math and bad at life. I should have stayed with that job. I was recruited out of university by men like me, who looked out for us.
I have found my peace, but large company nerd divisions are great for brilliant wierdo's.
Score is 5 but factor in racism which is not accounted for in the test.
I decided age 6 I wanted to be Captain Picard or maybe phrased better: I decided to replace the absent positive male role model with idealised humanist diplomat/scientist.
It worked out very well for me. My net worth is less than it could be because I decided to prioritise happiness over wealth, but I habe a great live.
What saddens me is that, kids today do not even get stories that look positively in the future. Sometimes it feels all modern sci-fi is dystopian.
ACE 5, as a child I was never tested for giftedness. From first grade till I took my SAT equivalent I never really studied, I just got things from class and I never did any homework. When I got to college (STEM) I had to repeat a couple of years because applying the same method as high school did not work - made me feel inferior.
When I started working I felt liberated, felt like life was different and because of that I had some success, but because I never really applied myself in school I lacked the exercise to do that and wherever I worked I was always the worst of the best. In my 40s now and I recently realized what it means to study, to put effort into something and this happened because I am now the worst of the worst - COVID took my depression to a new low, I'm just starting to go up again.
I have a child from a previous marriage that I don't know how to relate to, I keep trying to bond by I end up hurting them more - that's my biggest pain point. I am alone now, sometimes lonely, sometimes happy to be alone, but ideally I would like a partner.
ACE of 7, labelled as "gifted" as some point but was somehow talked out of pursuing accelerated education programs by a parent, grew increasingly disenchanted with the education system but managed to get my shit together enough to make it into a top-tier university program until family issues re-emerged and I ended up dropping out.
Still made it out OK as a homeowner with no student debt, but between the first 20-odd years of my life spent limping along and trying to pick up the pieces from my "adverse childhood" and another 4 or so odd years of pandemic lockdown, it feels like much of my early life was taken from me against my will.
I am satisfied with my achievements in spite of my tumultuous upbringing. That being said there will always be an undercurrent of "wasted potential" or "what if" I had the fortune of more fortuitous life circumstances.
As a sidebar I also am absolutely apoplectic with the blatantly sexist assumption in one of the ACE questions that it is the father who physically abuses the mother or threatens them with a weapon, but given that this is NPR I am not surprised.
ACE 2. labelled gifted as a young kid. have always struggled with people pleasing, and I've had a hard time finding my own center and figuring out who I am. I just focused a lot on external achievement in my youth.
I have undergone some rough trauma but most of the worst of it happened when I was an adult, so I feel fortunate and quite sad when reading some of the responses here.
there's a lot of general disdain about 'former gifted kids' but I do think we often feel pretty 'different' from everyone else growing up, and that alone can be quite isolating.
I manage, I do pretty good work I guess, but I'm definitely not as successful as I thought I would be. home/family life has always been hard. optimistic about the future.
hugs to everyone here for making it this far, hang in there.
ACE 4, late diagnosed with ADHD at 30 years old (M33).
Had a whole lot of anger about my parents and the world crammed up in me until the diagnosis.
Almost every move until then has been trying to peel back the invisible onion layers of protection I built up as a child and teenager (masking, cynicism, not asking for help or showing emotions).
Being blind to the coping mechanisms which you built up subconsciously but which don't serve you is what annoys me the most about this overall condition.
But it also gives me a sense of agency.
Currently reading "Hope for Cynics: The Surprising Science of Human Goodness", which I highly recommend.
So overall, I'm not satisfied with my career life as I feel many opportunities were taken away from me through no fault of my own.
I'm very satisfied with my personal life as I have of last year found a woman who I have been able to build a wonderful relationship with.
In all of this mess, I am extremely grateful for ADHD meds every day.
Don't often comment here but I just wanted to say that I feel you. ADHD was crippling for me my whole life and you really do develop a whole host of weird little layers of protection, either against yourself or against how you expect others to treat you. I'm 36 and got prescribed meds last year and it was a profound experience being able to cast off all the rituals and just... function. It is certainly frustrating to consider what one could have accomplished with this ability at, say, the age of 18 instead... but that way lies madness. At least we can build our future.
ACE of 8, IQ 170+, did absurdly well at High School. Am diagnosed ASD (at 50 years old) , have a psych friend say I'm ADHD but untestable.
I've had incredible highs (University Medal for example) in between various crises. My life is pretty shit, and I'll die alone. It took me a very very long time to learn to have nothing to do with family.
What makes you think you will die alone? I know many that have said that and have had late life turn around, but a big part of it is just being ok with yourself. The good, the bad, everything in between. The marbled reality that is you. To be like the trees that curve and twist and bend, flourish in one spot but drop leaves and branches in another.
It is not easy but it can be done. While the wake of the past can be turbulent, it is just that in the past. You can be aware of it, moved by it but remember you are the boat now that makes the wake. Don't deny the past, merely accept it as something that has happened, it does not need to dominate the time that you have.
Also seeing a therapist/counseling can be very helpful in this. Don't try to do this alone even if it can be difficult to bring yourself to do it! The anxiety of what it is like is far stronger than the actual event.
I scored 6, I turned my life "around" in some sense and pursued software engineering at 22 years old, after just neglecting my own wellbeing for at the time feeling like ages. Now at 28 I'm a senior engineer in a international corporation, it's not a tech company, but still something that i can feel good about. relationships and hobbies are good, but the pressure from performing on all fronts is some times so much that i fall into dysfunction and despair. but i feel like im building better coping mechanisms all the time when paying attention
I don’t think my history is important but I grew up in a home of 5 children (I’m the oldest), single (divorced) mother with far under the poverty line for a single person income.
I don’t know this test is very good, but my score was 7
My situation was not great, but I had many neighbors and friends in school with far worse situations.
I think, and have come to believe that, a difficult upbringing has many benefits in later life .
1. You know right from wrong, you’ve seen wrong
2. Empathy comes easier to you
3. You know exactly what you don’t want your life to look like
4. You value opportunity
5. You aren’t scared of people who have less wealth than you - further, you can figure out, quickly, who is poor but ambitious to improve their life, or poor and doesn’t care about anything.
6. Drugs are pure EVIL
All of my siblings have excellent careers now and excellent family lives, we all have wonderful spouses and there are 17 grandchildren with 1 more on the way!
I had over 1 million in net worth at 35. This continues to improve but doesn’t matter to me anymore, that was my milestone.
I don’t do scams, I don’t rip people off, I don’t do work or take money to help others accomplish dishonest goals.
I am comfortable working alone or in groups. In groups took a lot of work.
Please, believe in the power of positive thinking. This was key for me.
ACE 0, happy childhood, very problematic puberty and adolescence. I was bullied.
Much later in life I discovered I was what is called a Sigma male and everything made sense.
I created my own company but was poor for a while(but very happy to do what I wanted). People probably felt sorry for me but I did not care about their opinions.
7, basically was cut of from the last family member last year I had hopes in for over a decade after helping her to get back up, that cost me dearly in my career and private social life.
I pulled myself back up these year, don't have any holes in my CV and still have a job that pays enough so that I can put stuff aside. Which I'm taking as a win.
I do have some friends left that I can trust, which I take as a win.
Currently don't have a partner, but at least I not only recovered from the last break up, but I also got something slowly brewing that could become something or atleast another good friend. Taking that as a win.
Middle aged and most health problems are manageable or in progress about getting better. Taking this as a neutral.
Could have been in a much better space in life if specific people wouldn't have maliciously against me and I wouldn't have taken the risk on the one member I mentioned already. But I also could easily be, and see others, even some of my friends, in worse places.
ACE 5. I have been moderately successful in life and work, more so in the last few years, after I was treated for ADHD. Still have psychological issues to work through.
For me, the successes came from a combination of luck, and learning to make lemonade from the lemons life gives you. I was lucky to meet my wife in college, and even more lucky that she saw something in me, the confused and abandoned kid that I was. She filled in my weaknesses with her strengths, and I like to think that I had a similar effect on her.
I was the black sheep of the family, which drew me to entrepreneurism at an early age and made me not scared of taking risks. Either that or it was the toxoplasma. That's given me some moderate success in work and a comfortable life, but I don't feel fulfilled.
I turned out to be a total failure. I am to finish my uni next semester, but I was unable to find any sort of internship so I will have issues graduating. I am very lazy person. I don't have any sort of worth and I'm a disappointment to my parents.
ACE 2: I dealt with depression and anxiety since early adolescence, with a lot of drugs and petty delinquency. Went to college for STEM and quickly became obsessed with a life in academia. Completed a PhD at a top 10 school, then a postdoc in an Ivy League university working under a NASA contract. Now I'm a tenure track professor at an R1 university.
Despite never fully feeling socially connected and depression/anxiety ridding shotgun the whole time, I'm very satisfied with how things turned out. Though, I think that feeling has less to do with my career and more to do with my partner; without them I dont think I'd be around to write this.
Scored a 6 or a 7, depending on the answer to one question that I'm not sure of. I think more likely 7 than 6.
This pretty obviously impacted my happiness when I lived with an abusive parent and I have some physical issues that could possibly be related to starving so much as a kid and some others that fall out of not getting basic dental care, but I don't think it's obvious that my background is a dominant factor in how happy or satisfied I am. I find it plausible that my resilience in certain situations is lower than it otherwise would be due to my background, but it's not clear that it's even lower than average in those situations. And, overall, I was probably happier and more satisfied with my life than most people starting a couple years after moving out on my own until a few years ago.
Maybe the version of me that wasn't abused so much as a kid would've been even happier or maybe that version would still have above average life satisfaction today, but maybe not.
But if this test were applied to other kids, it would be off the charts. Abused and neglected in every way imaginable by my peers, growing up.
It's always annoyed me that if your abusers weren't your caregivers, your trauma is never taken seriously by the mental health community.
But it is what it is. I'm doing very well financially and professionally, I have a wife and kids, I am strong, fit, and healthy. But I have no friends, and it's impossible to relate with other people. Perpetually lonely, always the outcast, even decades after adolescence.
ACE of 8 here - I don't know how to qualify "gifted" but I believe I was and am a few std deviations away from median on most IQ tests I've had to take (therapists always insist I take one).
I don't feel the need to get into my childhood but there was instances of severe abuse/neglect, and extreme hoarding. Some light sexual stuff but it's all fuzzy. Our home and upbringing was a lot like that Turpin [0] family where they were basically forbidden outside contact despite maintaining normal appearances to the outside world. If that was a 10/10, mine was about a 7. I've had symptoms of PTSD since a very early age and subsequent traumatic events in adulthood.
My teens/early 20's were... difficult. I was independent by 17 and mostly was too busy trying to survive than to seriously attempt college. By my mid 20's I was able to enroll in community college and then transfer to a prestigious CS program and graduated with honors. I naively thought this would be the "end" of my problems - a lot of the trauma drove me to push through extraordinarily difficult circumstances during my time at school and trying to juggle several jobs.
In the decade since though, while I do have much more money and resources to get help than I used to, I feel I have declined. I've had persistent depression and anxiety for so long it's to the point I have difficulty recognizing it without the help of a therapist, who I see 2x a week. Found out I am very high functioning on the spectrum, and people often have difficulty understanding where I am coming from in terms of life experiences and I have difficulty relaying to them why I am the way that I am, so I often present a facade, which is isolating and lonely. My siblings fared a little better than I did and found family with their significant others that I for whatever reason did not. I suspect without being a gifted child I would have died a long time ago.
So all in all, not great, but probably much better than my peers in similar situations did.
I’ve never heard of ACE but I just scored a 7. Once upon a time I got diagnosed on the spectrum, as well as PTSD due to various traumas.
I turned out pretty well: successful career, married a really long time, and raised 3 kids without neglecting or abusing them. I still feel like an alien among people, but I’m socially functional, great confidence, can handle myself in any sense, etc.
I never mention my diagnoses to others but I keep them secret and do use them as valuable tools on how to approach my own problems and challenges. I never consider myself a victim — that’s like a sacred sin to me.
I’m very grateful for all the good and all the bad I’ve experienced. It built me into a flawed person that I’m very proud of.
ACE 7, recently got my PhD in ML and am doing reasonably well, at least from an 'objective' lens (I have a well paying job and bought my first condo recently). My mind is still chaotic as ever (I have a mix of OCD / Tourettes / PTS) and it's still often hard for me to concentrate without overthinking some portion of my life or something completely unrelated to the task at hand.
If I can plug a Youtuber who really 'gets it' (mental health and depression), it's Dr Scott Eilers. Everything else is just clichéd garbage.
(Disclaimer: I am not 'gifted' but did very academically well during high school and uni)
ACE of 3 after I started living with my grandparents. ACE of 8 if you include the first 2 years of my life.
I am doing mediocre:
Career: bad
Love life: fantastic
The rest: hardcore self-dev mode
I am an insomniac and it’s fucking up my life. The ability to hold down a job because of it is really hard, unless I do intellectually easy work, which programming isn’t for me.
I also had a horrible career start. I had top marks at my university but I didn’t know anything about hiring cycles. So I just chilled for a year and then had a rough time finding a job, took a job I didn’t want for the sake of it and then had a few patches of jobs that I didn’t feel fully okay with, except for my last job but then tech layoffs happened and interviewing became hard.
Some people say I should become a dating coach as opposed to a dev but I have no idea on how to do the marketing and sales for that. I currently feel tech is more sustainable.
It’s funny:
I taught people in 3 month coding bootcamps when I still was a CS student and they are more senior than me.
My friend that studied business doing no programming on the side is nowadays more senior than me.
I paid a career coach $5000 which is a lot on a yearly salary of $35000 (if I have a job), but it’s not helping. It’s probably in part because I am Dutch and he is better in the US market.
I feel it’s a cruel joke. I did all the “moves” to not launch a career at all.
I could use some help but I don’t exactly know what kind of help as my blind spots career-wise are big (otherwise I wouldn’t have overindexed on uni, 2 bachelors and 2 masters). It doesn’t help that I am immigrating to the US at some point (marriage) for my current job search in NL.
I am currently also in therapy in the diagnostic stage. I probably will be diagnosed as autistic (at 33+ of age) but the jury is still out, could also be adhd or both. I sought help for my insomnia.
I currently meditate 2 hours per day since 2 weeks ago. I don’t think I will ever stop that again. I can feel that it helps a lot, especially with executive functioning (prefrontal cortex - doing your tasks) and somewhat for sleep too.
Best careers I know in person did the classmates through the connections of their (mostly wealthy) parents or partners. There is no silver bullet here. Coming from poverty means grinding twice hard as others and being open for weird opportunities.
I'm doing OK in life. It took a long time for me to stop running away from things because I didn't trust anyone for a long time. I'm still cynical and paranoid, but I have a steady government job, a solid early retirement plan, and a supportive wife that loves me.
People are surprised I didn't amount to more in life, but I live my life 100% on my terms, and that's what's important to me.
ACE 7. I feel good about some parts of my life, but mostly I hate it. I miss human connection deeply, but I don't see any path to having it in my life after my relationship of a year ended. I feel disconnected from my upbringing and like I don't know how to function as a white collar worker, and I constantly feel like I don't deserve what I have now as an engineer. I love my cat and my family though, and doing computer graphics for a living is a dream come true in a lot of ways.
I'm a 7 but I grew up in the 80s lol. Diagnosed HFA as a child multiple times, high-IQ, was in gifted / IB programs
Honestly most of the abuse I suffered happened at school, as the autistic "gay" kid I was constantly bullied and there was no interest on the part of school staff to do anything about it.
When I was 16 I fell into a nicer crowd but they drank and partied a lot and I ended up dropping out in grade 12. Got work as a computer technician, did that for a decade or so, moved on to other stuff.
The autism has been a real struggle that has become more challenging with age, and the memories of abuse do haunt me.
I generally agree. However, times have changed. The middle class standards that many of us grew up with and set for ourselves are increasingly difficult to achieve. The expectations were not particularly high and they seemed reasonable at the time they were set.
Off-topic, but did anyone attend Johns Hopkins CTY camp as a kid? I did it for 9 straight summers, and while the name is a bit pretentious, it was one of the best experiences I had. I am curious if anyone is an alum, since the overlap of CTY and HN seems pretty unique atm.
My ACE is 0 (lucky me, my solidarity goes to all of you). Although childhood problems are a grave impediment for life, do you think you come out stronger / more brave than people with no problem?
For example I turned out a workaholic because I couldn’t find how to have success in my affective life. I’m 40, fit, correctly rich, but with a deep unsatisfaction about romantic life. Should I just be brave about it and satisfy myself with being single, or would a brave person deal about it?
The research shows that people come out less strong. Bravery is different, I think that's highly individual. Some people who seek out extreme thrills and adrenaline do so because their brain and nervous system are hardwired for dangerous environments, and it's the only way they can feel normal.
You have to work to find silver linings, opportunity in chaos and vice versa.
To your own issue, bravery would be taking action to address your dissatisfaction. That could mean therapy, or putting yourself out there, but in any case takes the very real bravery of developing self-awareness and honesty so you can identify what you need to do.
I'm in my mid twenties. Got a decent SWE job, net worth around 0$ but I just got rid of most of my debts which is nice.
Extremely anxious all the time and depressed, still traumatized by a lot of stuff, zero social life at the moment, never managed to maintain any long term relationships(both in terms of friends and partners), not great physical health but it's getting better.
I'm not completely unsatisfied with my life, given the circumstances it was much more likely to be a lot worse. But it definitely could be a lot better.
I think you’re doing so, so well. I have reservations about making close relationships too because of my past, so it’s a common pattern amongst people with traumatic experiences. I plan to try out a hobby group but time hasn’t been so flexible.
I’ve seen other people fall into the trap of thinking that their body is a meatbag for their brain. I’ve personally found that exercise helps me so much with both reducing depressive symptoms and maintaining focus.
Hope you find whatever it is which you think will make your life better, take care!
What is "gifted" supposed to mean? Money? Career path? Not being sarcastic, but reading through the majority of comments is much more sad than any kind of gifted. What does being a CxO really mean when all your fundamentals are messed up? I'm afraid what success means to many people.
ACE 2, which seems lower than most here. ADD, only diagnosed in my early 30s (I'm 52 now). I guess I'm OK, if you consider "fairly regular job instability but also fairly high highs" OK... it's certainly more dramatic.
So I guess I'm just here to support the rest of you! hah
Wife is gifted and ACE 8, at age 33 with years of therapy and support she's finally able to go to community college this year and explore a field she's interested in. It takes a long time but it can get better.
I only live because I've failed at killing myself every time I've tried. I just need to wait it out. in the meantime I've got a good job that pays for shelter/food/entertainment. I have no ambition, no real drive towards anything. just serving out my time.
I believe an ACE between 2 to 5 will be standard among most non-Western people with regular childhoods. Corporal punishment was (and is, to a large extent) a very common part of disciplining and raising your child in Asia, ME and Africa.
I passed gifted school entrance exam in my home country of Iran when I was a kid. Didn't tell my parents because I didn't like going there and I wanted to have a normal life.
I currently work at Microsoft and have a PhD in Computer Science / Compilers.
The worst thing is not failing. Could have excuses to justify a bad life due to family, poverty, violence, war, decadence, health or whatever but nothing worked. Always float back up with success, somehow.
You have a brain, it solves problems without your permission.
I have an ACE score of 6. I vastly benefit from trauma therapy: EMDR, IoPT (constellations), hypnotherapy, somatic experiencing, nonviolent communication. It helped me get out of most of my previous addictions, and I do not need to take any medication. I consider myself to be quite happy, and was able to build secure attachments and bonds.
Hi there,
I would start with looking up complex trauma and looking for a therapist in your area who specializes in EMDR and parts work for complex trauma (I'm a therapist myself). The book The Body Keeps the Score provides a ton of information and good tips/strategies as well. Lots of luck and healing is possible.
I got 5, was annoyed it only asked about mothers being hit, when it was my mother doing the hitting, learned how to take a punch from her... ...but anyway, turned out alright I think.
I mean, one rather disastrous marriage, but I've got full custody of my amazing kids.
And yeah, I'm the same, don't feel accomplished but reality is I'm doing financially better than most people in my country.
I am currently working on undoing a lifetime of negativity towards myself, left home at 15, never graduated from high school, never got a degree, but have managed to take some computer science papers via correspondence. (Diagnosed with ADHD at 40, but obviously had it as a kid, my mother preferred a pseudo-science approach, which didn't work)
You’ve accomplished something to be proud of. I am in the same place, working on dealing with a lot of negativity towards myself. I hope you find your way out of it too. Best of luck!
Yeah, I wouldn't take the score too seriously. Nothing about various types of abuse beyond some random measures. I think it's just a quick heuristic, nothing scientific.
I get what you’re saying, but knowing other people had similar experiences and found some measure of life satisfaction is helpful to me, and I hope it’s also helpful to someone else.
ACE of 1, but I grew up in a poor gang infested neighborhood and experienced many of the things in this list from other children in the neighborhood and school rather than family, and it definitely affected me.
Highly gifted here (ACE 7), skipped two grades. Burnt out young before career really took off. Still did well enough to be comfortable - worked in research for a while. Spent decades trying to find answers from doctors who were all useless. Found out much later it’s ME/CFS from hEDS (TNXB) and it’s a lot more frequent that people realize, especially in cohorts selected for intelligence. When I was young I was warned by the gifted program coordinators that skipping multiple grades was bad for kids because they always burnt out, I think they noticed a direct link between the extent of giftedness and the likelihood of burnout but missed the causation.
So I agree there is a strong link between such household behaviors and giftedness but it’s because genetic predisposition to anxiety issues, dopamine disregulation, chronic fatigue in a world that can’t identify it or manage it. So these people get sick and not only can’t get help but the whole world gaslights them. I don’t blame my parents for who they are. And as tough as it has been for me I wouldn’t trade it back for my IQ especially in an era where intelligence is at such a premium. I just try to get the message out in the hope that it helps others, hence posts like this.
I lost interest in formal education and ended up having a baby and dropping out, then going back to study psychology as the foundation stuff covers child psychology and development a lot. I found a combination of this and being mindful not to repeat the mistakes of my parent(s) really helped raising the kids incredibly easy. We were never going to be rich, but we were happy.
I got into health and fitness, which I always considered lame, because my dad died from being unhealthy and unfit and didn't want to inflict that pain on my own baby. It helped me think clearer and faster and made me feel safe, confident and I became quite extroverted. I felt that this and reading a good chunk of philosophical literature in my spare time really "fixed" a lot of mental health issues I had. I've spent most of my life working jobs around my lifestyle, even if it means having less money, I seem to be pretty good at living off a small amount of money and not living in misery even with the family, I have more in savings and investments than people I met that work 2-3x more than me. I work less hours so I get more time to read, create, be with family, get exercise and sun, meet friends, prepare meals, work on community projects etc.
Maybe it's a cope for being constantly told that I'm going to "go far" and being too lazy, distracted or disinterested in doing it (I wince every time someone praises my intelligence) but I'm happy that I have the freedom and opportunities to always be improving myself and trying new things, my only complaint is that life is too short for me to possibly indulge in everything that interests me.
My university scholarships were based on a few factors including my area code / postal code being considered as “deprived” meaning high crime, low income and low education attainment.
I personally don’t have any issues (I don’t think).
I think you have to grow up a bit. There's more to life than the rat race, and if you score high, you should be participating in the direction of life. Not just follow the crumbs laid down by others. Or chose their side.
You're not a rat, and it helps other people if you don't act like one scared little mouse. Especially if you got decent brains. It's hurts them morally when they have to compete with you when they should have an ally.
Yeah, there is so much pressure to just stop living (and follow the crumbs), and there's no way to achieve anything of worth outside of it. No friends for example, supposedly. As we all are trapped, and we do it to ourselves, self apply the Matrix and tragically be the enemy of our loving destiny.
Those who realize they are trapped have traditionally, and wisely, kneeled to Christ, and have typically been rewarded with a new life. Amen. But if you have decent brains you might also compassionately reason a way out, or identify those that have done so, and join their quest.
Stop living your life as if it's just you. It's not. The rat race lies about you. And the collective lies about you. Grow a spine. These are the facts of life. And as Christianity fades they get pushed into our faces. We have to deal with a self serving collective, that makes us into enemies. Especially us in the software realm mindlessly masturbate to our own bank accounts, while we know better, and that political future needs us. Instead we mindlessly empower ever bigger titans. Karma will come round.
Yes this alternative future needs a business model, to take care of the individuals that are currently starved out of resistance, including by you, and out of their potential to be the good they know they can be.
While there is no business, you still have an excuse. But once it exists, in it you'll be working to empower the ones on your side, fully and completely sharing your life. Our beautiful but deficient society demands it is so extreme, for it itself is a tangent.
Therefore the king shall work his way up, and be compassionate. And as he rises the powers that be will see an enemy, and will fight with fud. And all what their profits can buy. But they will also see a prophecy taking aim at them. The angels in high heaven, and their master, which surely do not exist, right?
ACE 10, currently in my late 30s. Severe clinical depression and anxiety throughout life, many associated issues around that. Psychopath father, borderline mother. Alcohol and drug issues. Siblings have not fared well and have life outcomes that follow what you would expect. These sort of experiences destroy lives before they begin.
Have faced serious issues with dissociation, and have complex PTSD. Still working on it, it's not a smooth ride but have made progress. Had a lot of issues to work on and have changed significantly over the years. There have been highs and lows.
I've managed to have some success with relationships and life goals in spite of it. With the right support, time, and considerable effort things are improving.
I think a lot of people here have similar experiences. Intelligence is a protective factor that gives you the ability to skip your life script, but it's a difficult journey. The only people I know who suffered severe childhood trauma and recovered are above average intelligence.
Autism, ADHD, and a staggering range of other mental and physical issues have causal links with childhood trauma. For many kids, a diagnosis of ADHD is a nice way of saying "your home environment is abusive and illegal, but saying that is problematic. You live in a hellhole and for some reason can't pay attention. Here's a pill."
ACE score of 8. I'm mildly satisfied, depends on the day.
Similar thing with ADHD, also with sleep apnea (severe, 79 AHI, untreated till final year of college, which made things much better :)). Probably autistic, if you ask anyone close to me, I keep meaning to get evaluated for it (see ADHD).
But yeah, I have done a lot of awesome stuff over the years, despite a lot of my trauma sources remaining into my post childhood years.
Some of those folks have died, others I've since cut off. I am thankful for some close friends who I think of as family.
I've always been an exercise person, which I think is partially to regulate my emotions / depression. It mostly works, but I still take Sertraline for anxiety, which has really changed my life. I wish I had started before I turned 30, but better late than never.
My ACE score is 2. I am extremely dissatisfied with my life. I wrote hundreds of words in a reply to this post and deleted them because no one cares.
My net worth is whatever. I need to manage money better but frankly bills haven't been a concern for long time. I live within my means and need to invest instead of holding cash.
I have few friends, and when I had a depressive episode a few months ago and told people? They all evaporated.
I'm convenient. Friendly, affable - yes. But not worth much else. Been a hard one for me but I just work now instead. The ROI works out better.
The people that live in my home notice me, and that's about it.
I've felt that way, but I got past it by realizing this is kind of how most people are. It's hard to sustain generosity and compassion over the long term. They want to be that friend who sticks with you through thick and thin, but they've got their own shit to deal. It's not about you, so try not to take it personally. It's the human condition.
"Gifted" is of course a spectrum. You'd know if you were smarter than the average bear if you got put up a class, put into "the smart kids class", or got selected for various leadership programs etc.
Of course not everywhere would have such programs, but there will likely be other tell-tale signs as well.
When I was growing up, it meant you scored 130 or higher on an IQ test administered by a professional psychologist. For me, I had this administered in 3rd grade. I assume some teacher suggested I get tested.
Seems like it's since been reworked, but before 2014 elementary kids in the US were tested and potentially placed in the GATE Program[1] based on their results.
Presumably you get told you're gifted by the education system following some assessment.
Personally, I'd never even heard of the term "gifted" until I left home for university, it wasn't a thing that existed in the rural location where I grew up.
The most quantitative measure is IQ. People like to criticize it but in psychology it is the most empirically verified number that correlates with so many things.
ACE 0, iq 125, never qualified as gifted beyond teachers and others saying "you're smart! you just need to apply yourself!"
Talking with wife and mother about my childhood made me understand that I've had untreated adhd (got diagnosed only recently, in my late 30s, now in the process of seeing if I'm also on the autism spectrum).
Life seen from the outside looks fairly okay, educated, employed, wife, kid, 3 homes, 2 cars, no mortgage.
From the inside: depressed and chaotic, self hatred, lethargic, I can't ever remember wanting to be here, and always finding external reasons to stay, first I didn't want my parents to get sad, now I don't want to fail my wife and kid. But so far, this life has been for others, no myself. I'm not suicidal, I just don't find it particularity thrilling to be alive, it seems like a lot of trouble for very little reward.
So in short, I'm not satisfied with my life, and it's not really depending on external factors, just the way my brain is wired.
I remember in particular an episode where I was 5 or 6 years old and I asked my dad, "why are we even alive? what's the point?" he got mad (I concluded at the time, because he didn't know either, but in retrospect, might have been because it might have sounded like a dark or provocative thing to ask for, but it was an honest question).
I am pretty sure, you can find some activity that brings you joy. Looks like you’re doing financially well and can choose everything between carpentry and private pilot license. Be egoistic and selfish! After getting nice fast car I realized, that I unexpectedly like cars. Next thing is doing a license for a boat. Twin engine motorboat is also very nice.
ACE 8. Despite a promising start in life, things deteriorated rapidly.
Mother was in and out of mental hospitals during much of teenage years, abusive, narcissistic. Father was alcoholic, absent, frequent bouts of adultery. Eventually they divorced when I was 12. Sent to live with grandparents who didn't want me, very abusive, cruel and neglectful. Changed my opinion on my family during those years.
Father eventually remarried, mother did not. Mother died of suicide at age 58. Step mother also died of suicide at age 48. No relationship with any other family members.
Diagnosed with ADHD, depression and anxiety. Also was born with severe hemophilia and had to deal with all that on top of everything, gay. Despite all that, was able to train myself as a software engineer and have a decent career.
That said, knowing what I know now, if given the choice from the beginning, I would choose not to live this life even if it meant a chance of having a worse life.
Most of my life, until recently, I've suffered from anxiety and anger issues. I've also suffered from depression for several decades, but that luckily ended about 15 years ago. I'm 54 now.
I've changed jobs and careers many times (that's part of our profession, but I also think it's due to my trauma), I'm twice married, I don't really have many friends (although in my older age I'm realizing I like my alone time).
And yet, I am now very satisfied with my life, although this hasn't always been the case. I retired early, I have an amazing wife, and two incredible dogs. The key for me was to work extremely hard on healing myself with therapy (this took years and lots of money), never give up, try different things if something didn't work, and to not be afraid of going out of my comfort zone. Also, having another life that depends on me, like pets, really helped to get me out of focusing on my troubles and also helped to put things into perpective.
This is definitely not for everyone, but it worked for me.
My ACE score is 7, but I don't feel like that for 2 reasons:
1. there are some questions that technically I should answer "Yes", but is of milder scale of the spectrum.
2. I occasionally shared my upbringing to other people, and they are all very surprised. Once I shared with a group of "trainee chaplains", the teachers are commenting something like "why I'm describing my experience without the emotion", that is, when I talked about something very sad, I am smiling when saying it out. And they also pointed out that I often are asking "why" when facing different situations. I.e. I tends to become "philosophical".
May be because of my upbringing then, I loved mathematics since I was a kid. I remember myself once said when I was very young, "I love mathematics because it concerns truth, that is independent of our existence, nor the existence of the universe for that matter." In the hindsight, I think it might be some sort of protective mechanism for me to escape from the reality.
But perhaps because of my upbringing, I've taken many detours in life. When I was in secondary school, I have no motivation to study anything, and so my academic results were very bad. Fortunately, I like to read books, and got interested in popular books on math and physics, and also read a lot of computer magazines. That helps me having good grades in those subjects. Eventually I was discovered to be gifted because of physics olympiad. And that changed the course of my life. Had that didn't happen, I'm not sure if I would even got into university, let alone having a PhD.
So in this sense the "gifted" part of your question becomes my ticket to get out of my "hard life".
Unfortunately, life is complicated. First, having a "hard life", I don't have anyone to guide me making good decisions. Like the sort of decisions about making life choices, how to pursue goal in life (or resist the temptation to pursue too many goals), etc. Or work ethics, self-disipline, etc. Raw talent can only help so far, and as I ages I found that while my will can be strong, my body is getting weaker (e.g. can't get too much all nighters anymore.)
Finally, I made a fatal mistakes to want to help everyone, including my parents. That puts me into a financial disaster and almost ruined my career and life.
How satisfied am I with my life now? "Thinking" helps. As a christian studying the bible theologically, it does shape my world view in a way I can "let go" and don't dwell in the hardship I had. As a researcher, my "thinking" is my primary value to get a job. A bonus of being a researcher is that I'm far away from home, so that I get much less connected with those negativity back home than in the past, and the change in my wellbeing is noticeable to my wife. Loving "thinking" means I love reading and listening to podcasts, enriching my perspectives in life.
The most fulfilling part of my life is my family, I have a lovely wife, a lovely baby.
Financially we aren't brilliant. But somehow, even as both my wife and I grew up from very poor families, we don't value money too much. I just don't find it motivating to make a ton of money, nor measures my success based on that. (It doesn't mean we don't have financial stress, as supporting a family of 3 including a baby in the UK is quite harsh.)
I feel that your life is getting better, but not to the point you felt satisfied yet. I hope you'll find your satisfaction, and meanwhile, don't worry too much. You have seen many hardships. You're tough and you can handle it when it comes. Don't dwell too much on those that may come though. Good luck!
I drove myself too hard, survived 3 cardiac arrests, no longer interested in sacrificing my health, sleep, food, hobby time, mental health, and time spent with loved ones, and finding it extremely, extremely hard to find exciting opportunities that are compatible with this lifestyle.
I want to work on things I love working on, but 40 hours a week. I want to sleep 8 hours a day, cook 80% of my meals, and spend time in nature exercising. I also want to take 4-6 weeks of vacation a year and learn about other people and cultures. The whole "it doesn't feel like work" thing that every single silicon valley founder who works 100 hours/week parade around is fucking annoying. It's annoying because I used to be egged on to be that person, and I almost died. Stop virtue signalling. (a) You will die early (b) You an ass to your family and you aren't even there for them while you're still alive
Which doesn’t have an autism-industrial complex or addictive pill mill complex behind it which is why you’ve never heard of it.
I got numerous psych evals that always missed it, the first was before STPD (highly flawed, missing at least 1/3 of the phenomenon including the one that looks like ‘ADHD’) was added to the DSM. Maxxed all sub scales in the Weschler IQ test except for problem solving where I was just one SD over the mean (my brain shorting out caused that). I’m terrible at chess but got really good at math in college despite never being able to score better than 90% on a math quiz in high school. (got a PhD in theoretical physics). My verbal intelligence is too high to measure because I’ve maxxed every test I’ve tried. As a kid I would go to the YMCA every Saturday for gym and swim and then check out 10 books from the public library and more or less I do that today.
I’m an arch reductionist and don’t believe in any of it but I am great with crystal balls, dowsing rods and ouija boards. Knowing what I know now I should have been an onmyoji. Somehow I can’t form a ‘whole’ the way other people though but I can hold two contradictory systems inside myself simultaneously. I can be a bridge between two groups for a while but eventually it goes bad.
Got bullied as a kid, graduated from elementary school the same way Ender Wiggin did. No complaints about parents but they were working class and had no idea how to help me in professional life, couldn’t afford to get me more than one year in a private school. (Where the bullying stopped) Got a lot of great opportunities, blew many of them.
Been with the same woman for 30 years, had a child, had steady work except for the times I didn’t. My rank in terms of ‘living in a beautiful place’ is probably better than my karma rank on HN. My wealth is probably better than the median for my cohort but I haven’t ’made it big’.
I still do strange off putting things that drive some people away (always failed at trying to have an affair); I understand a lot know about the how and why but it is very hard to stop. When my condition is inflamed I have paranoid ideation towards physical objects (I was waving my arms around but it sure seemed I was attacked by the potted plant I knocked down) or family (why the hell is my wife standing where my pills are and why did she move right to the sink after I got them?)
There is very little clinical data on my condition, I’m a bit afraid I’ll get really mean and psychotic if I develop dementia.
I am sure some of you who think you have ADHD and/or autism have it too.
You sound like someone I’d love to have a beer with, cheers! I am glad you were able to overcome bad stuff in life and feel overall okay!
I know it may not necessarily be correct, but my self-performed assessments from online quizzes of Schizotypal disorder are negative or minimal. It’s good to have information about such conditions, regardless.
I only got a 3, I've had an easy life material-wise but still managed to be depressed or something. I think I'm probably pretty autistic. I'm on ADHD meds and they do something but not enough.
I have trouble connecting "I'm looking forward to this" with "I'm enjoying this" with "I remember enjoying that".
Seems like a lot of times I just don't remember positive things, or I don't feel good about positive things that have happened, or I can't comprehend that I'll be happy when I'm feeling down, which is a lot.
I don't deal with romantic feelings or attachment in a healthy way.
All happy families are alike;
each unhappy family is unhappy
in its own way.
The ACE test is convenient and that makes it useful. It validates people’s experiences and that makes it a good thing.
I have a pretty clear idea of how and why my childhood was the way it was. I could stretch and analog my lived experiences to fit the questions.
Gifted has been bullshit in the water where I swim for a long time. Invisible. Dissolved. Gifted was a reason to be othered. Formally. Informally. By institutions, neighbors, family.
The ACE questions were useful to me this morning. As a starting point. I’d forgotten how being labeled gifted actually felt. Worse things have happened to other people. I am not competing. Good luck.
I first heard the idea in a video where Thiel used the quote. I think it was a YC Dtartup School video on YouTube.
Here the quote for the principle hewed closer to the subject than ordinarily. Tolstoy’s “cheery white crosses” probably deserves its own principle too.
I'm not autistic and my family was more emotionally neglectful than anything else, but I had a miserable childhood nonetheless. I was a child prodigy who could read aloud by two and a half, I was studied by pediatric developmental psychologists, etc. IQ of 185 at last check, which was 30 years ago.
Unfortunately, I either inherited type two bipolar depression or it's just what happens when you're very smart and see the world as it is. It has undermined me my entire life. But I also have zero competitive streak and I find material ambition embarrassing. So I've never been particularly financially successful.
Been a coder and writer my entire adult life. Started writing professionally when I was 18, had a column in an alt weekly in a major city before I was 23 and was Pulitzer nominated when I was 25. At the same time I was first a web designer and then a dev. I've worked for a few promising startups but they always did what most startups do. In retrospect, I was already burned out by the mid-2000s but I kept going because I thought I'd either get rich or find something worth my time.
Had a heart attack at 38 and another at 42 that nearly killed me. Had a triple bypass and moved to England to marry my girlfriend. Now I've got heart failure and spinal problems from a lifetime hunched over a computer and all the health problems you get from a lifetime of being a freelancer or contractor without insurance.
But I've lived an amazing life so far. I've traveled, partied, been witness to history, done what I wanted to do and followed my heart and will. I've done some good things for the world, I think. Now I'm writing a new social network app to fix the problems with the existing ones, working on a book about how to survive climate collapse if you're not a billionaire, and writing the best music I've ever written.
You won't make yourself feel safe by getting rich or powerful. You'll feel safe when you've surrounded yourself with people you love and trust. That's all. It has nothing to do with success or ambition. However you find that, whatever it takes, make that your ambition. And to use whatever the universe gave you to make things less hard on you and everyone you can.
If you're as bright as you seem to be, other people probably seem stupid. Maybe they are. But that doesn't make them any less human or any less important than you, and if you can see ways to make life kinder for them, do it and you'll never regret it. Everything else is just ego and self-reinforcement to drown out the things in your head that tell you you're not good enough or living up to your potential. Fuck that.
If you try as hard as you can to make the world a kinder place than you found it, you've won. That's all you can do. That's the only real wisdom I've ever found. We are born falling from birth to death, and all we can choose is how we use our time in the air: we can enjoy the rush of the air in our ears and the view, we can try to make sure everybody falling around us has their parachute open, or we can open ours without a thought for anyone else and still fall...alone.
ACE 3 (but that feels one too high). I consider myself to have had a good childhood with loving parents. My father never had a relationship with his father. I think that abandonment is a factor in some of the emotional dysregulation issues he's dealt with throughout his life. I'm the oldest and, when I was really young, he also had some issues with drugs and alcohol that were basically dealt with by the time my siblings came along.
I was identified as gifted in 1st grade. It got to a point where I was teaching myself and working from 3rd and 4th grade textbooks in class, so the school basically told my parents I either needed to skip grades or go somewhere that would allow me to work at an accelerated pace because "otherwise, he's going to get frustrated and end up hating school." Parents moved me to a private school that taught in kind of an alternative style. The closest thing I can approximate it to is somewhat Montessori style. Starting in 1st grade, I basically sat in a cubicle and self-taught myself every subject. I had a minimum amount of course work to complete for each subject each day, and I was also in charge of grading my own work. If you got your work done, you graded and corrected your work accurately, and didn't get in trouble for anything else, then they had a "privileges" system that basically allowed you to play board games or, at times, wander the school grounds to do things like shoot baskets. I remember days where my school work took maybe an hour total. When I was in 9th grade, that school moved to a more traditional high school class setup, which was pretty boring for me. I'd been so far ahead before the change though that it allowed me to take a couple honors courses at the local university 1st semester of senior year and then graduate a semester early, where I spent that semester interning on Capitol Hill.
Growing up, I always did really well on standardized testing. I'd think I did terrible if I scored below the 97th percentile. For the college entrance exams, I scored National Merit Scholar level. In college, I tested at 137 and 142 (different IQ tests, don't recall which two).
Because the private school was small and "unaccredited" at the time, I suspect that led me to miss out on potential opportunities at more exclusive universities. Instead, I ended up attending a large state university (still a decent school). There, I had to teach myself how to study (never needed to before) and learn to balance attendance (for a subset of classes, I could skip lectures and still score highly on tests, but that sometimes bit me because I'd get dinged for missed attendance). Around junior year, I was officially diagnosed with ADHD.
I've spent my career working in the technology side of consulting. I'd classify myself as "somewhat satisfied" with my life. Career-wise, I've consciously made some decisions that I knew would potentially slow my career advancement in the interest of my family and trying to have a more sustainable work/life balance.
I'll be honest, I don't feel like my brain is put to great use most of the time. (Counterintuitively, that seems to get somewhat worse the more I advance.) I stay working in the field mainly because the nature of the work brings change and new challenges (new clients, new problems, etc.) and because I highly value working with intelligent people (and I'd put most of my coworkers in that category). Once in a while, something comes along that really allows me to leverage my natural strengths and shine. Between, I can get very bored and almost go on autopilot at times (some of that is the ADHD). Or I'm been viewed as performing well, but know deep down that I am only doing a fraction of what I am capable of. I constantly battle my ADHD tendencies.
I've had to adapt over the years in many ways. With the way I grew up, I'm very self-sufficient, so it took concerted effort to learn to delegate. In general, I had to learn patience. I think I was an okay manager but getting better at both of those things made me much better on the management side of things.
The rest of the "somewhat" response stems mostly to some marriage challenges over the past few years. That's another story but some of what I've described plays a small role there. Ex: it can wear on a partner when the other partner has a strong memory and is usually right, or when you the other partner is several steps ahead of the other when thinking something through, even when it isn't a competitive thing and you are just trying to get to the best or most accurate answer.
ACE score of 4 though I think it should be 5 or higher as I lost both parents, at separate times, before I turned 18. If one parent is a single point...both parents should be scored significantly higher.
IQ in the 140-160 range (depending on the time and test), in gifted/honors/AP programs all throughout school and college.
Youngest child of a large Brady-bunch style family (6+ siblings, all half). I was the golden child, the spoiled one. The one that got their own room when everyone else had to share.
Many of my brothers and sisters had rough teenage years and some of that flowed down to me. I saw fights with brothers/sisters, between each other and my parents. Some getting physically violent.
Around 8-11 years old I was initiated into sexual play with older male, teen family(not my siblings), no adults ever touched me. Being too young to understand that was wrong, I then passed the abuse down to many other family members younger than me. It was never forced, but wrong none the less. The older ones knew better. I should have known better. The younger ones did not know any better. As far as I know they do not struggle with anything related to that now.
Father was mostly working and minimally available until I lost my mother at age 11. He went to a dark place after that and was unable to care for me, so I lived with other family. Some moderate physical abuse happened then but nothing significant.
During this time of minimal supervision I discovered the internet and porn, and became obsessed with it. It quickly devolved into consuming illegal material.
My father eventually recovered and I went back to live with him, but the seed was already planted. I've continued those bad habits throughout the majority of my life. I used to struggle with it, hating myself for it. But have come to terms with it now. It is who I am and it's not going to change.
I lost my father at 15, which was far more devastating to me emotionally than my mother (at least based on my present memory). I had grown very close to him after losing my mother and truly a piece of my heart was ripped out and is still gone to this day 15+ years later. I miss my mother, but that pales in comparison to my yearning for the time I missed out on with my father. I wish every single day of my life that he were still here. I dream about him, I can't listen to the kind of music my parents listen to. I can't go to the type of churches they went to. Any of those things just wreck my ability to cope and maintain composure. I miss him dearly.
After losing him, I lived with some family that took decent care of me after that, no real abuse but also very limited supervision especially of my online activities.
I was essentially kicked out after graduating high school and sent to live alone at the house I grew up in. I was left with a small inheritance which I was given full access to at that time, and it was gone within 2 years. I spent the next 10 years with little to no money though I did have a place to live. It was poorly maintained and became less and less safe, but kept me mostly dry.
I got in trouble during that time for my online activities (possession of CSAM) but managed to avoid prison time. I still struggle with it today but have come to peace with the attractions just being a fact of life. I have not touched any child in any inappropriate manner since I was in my early teens and will not ever again.
I am relatively successful now by most measures. I met a woman, who is now my wife, who drove me to improve myself. We now have two amazing children. Our combined income puts us in the top 5% of the US overall but we still struggle with impulse buying and living within our means. We make plenty of money but it seems we never have any to spare. We have no real assets other than our $1M house that is about 70% financed and some very small (<$100k) retirements accounts.
I'm very happy now other than the financial struggles. My wife is amazing, I cherish our kids and they are doing very well. We have strong family ties and see them often. Her parents are involved with the children, as well as some of my siblings play a grandparent role. We mostly beat the tough times and are all doing decent, financially I am doing the best out of everyone.
So like you, I would be viewed as accomplished by many, but still struggle daily. The only thing that I truly live in fear of is that something will take me away from my children and family(death or legal). A car accident. Work accident. Health issue. Some skeleton from my past rising to the surface and causing legal problems. I'm trying my best to ensure that doesn't happen, that my kids don't grow up without a father. But it is a daily fear.
Late 30's, ACE 6 (I basically had a sociopathic, druggy, gambling step father who has a talent for making others' lives miserable. My house chores included watering the weed plants).
Although parts of my childhood weren't the best, I actually had many good things in my life growing up as well. My mother and father are very caring people, and I was involved in many extra curricular activities (music, sports etc). I went to university, got a CS degree, Masters and have gone on to have a decent professional career.
It's been emotionally difficult at times. I learnt some years ago that my dad was a functioning meth addict, and I felt a bit like I was leading a double life at times - when I'd go home to visit, and was literally at his then gf's house where she was dealing... my dad would be shining a torch on some rocks, asking me if I could see what he could. I'd then head back to where I was living and get back to my software job. My dad was very sick for a while and was given a few months to live. Luckily he's still around. Another emotional strain are alcohol issues across my family.
As I'm getting older, I'm trying to let go, to be supportive of family members while realizing that I can't control their lives. They have to come to the conclusions they need to, and they need to want to live differently.
I do my best to look after myself (I've always had to do that!), to stay fit and healthy, and to grow personally. I am not my parents, nor am I the surroundings that I grew up in. If I blame them for the bad, I also must blame them for the good, and for the unique perspective they've given me.
One thing that has helped, has to have been around other high performing people - in many different aspects of life (academically, financially, sports, music etc). Martial arts has given me a lot of confidence as well.
Otherwise, I'm usually very much future focused. I try to stay positive, to keep things light-hearted and help others out when I can.
ACE of 6. Only child, divorced parents. Family of engineers and scientists, third generation programmer, started with QBasic at 7 in 95. Won some math and programming competitions, changed schools two times, ended up in the best math high school of the country. Played cello, didn't know how to talk to people and have friends until high school. Went to uni for bioinformatics.
Dropped out, went to gamedev, in general spent a lot of 20s in random search. Found a startup at 22 and got funding, it was first failure out of many. Moved countries, married, divorced, went to therapy, moved countries again and again. Played in a band, played as a DJ, tried a lot of things. Sold all of my mined Bitcoin in 2012.
Now I'm a senior developer, and for the last few years I've been working for american startups remotely outside of the US. It pays fairly well, I love my work and colleagues, and I genuinely think that my work is meaningful and improves other people's lives, even if in a small way.
But at the same time, I'm a semi-forced immigrant (can't really call myself a refugee) with questionable legal status, no significant savings, and questionable career prospects. I don't have legal right to work in the US, which is the only job market that matters. I work as contractor for now, but I'm very anxious about availability of US job market for remote-remote developers such as myself, and about what happens to my career as I get into 40s and 50s. I don't feel safe either, and I despite the fact that I'm comfortable, I feel that I could have achieved more.
I beat myself up about a lot of things. I imagine that if I just kept studying math and CS, I would have won a lot of programming competitions, get really good at fundamental CS, got into Google 10-12 years ago (while it was still the place to be at), probably quickly moved to the US, worked on fundamental hard problems, and in general had a much better career than I have now. I'm still a great programmer and have a better job and compensation than about 90% developers of the world (give or take), of course. Or I could have gone into ML. I toyed with different genetic algorithms back around 2010, and with neural networks too — even before AlexNet. I got very serious about ML around 2014, did the first Coursera course, and if I kept at it, I once again could only imagine where it would have got me in these 10 years.
It is very seducing to look at other people's achievements and think that you could have done the same, if only you made the right choices. But then I think about all of the experiences I had instead. I've met so many people and explored so many different things that life has to offer. I've learned A LOT of things that previous "nerd" would have thought impossible. I learned confidence in confrontation, public speaking and romance, and very lucky in the latter. I've learned a lot about business, art, music, journalism, history and a million of other fields. I've grown as a person, I found people that I like and trust. After years of therapy, I had to admit a lot of baggage that I had to take care of — and did it. And I don't think that these people that I envy had to deal with baggage like that.
It's hard to accept things that you're not, and things that you will never become, and it's easy to take for granted the things you have. I'm an anxious person. I always think of the worst and find a way to feel guilty about every failure, possible or imaginary. But now that I know and accept these flaws in my own thinking, every day I make a conscious effort to correct my attitude the other way. And day after day, it slowly gets better.
Due to neglect, I grew up with facial and foot deformities. I often hid my illnesses for fear of angering my parents. Things improved a bit after they left and I began living with other relatives. One summer however my parents asked me to visit them in a new country but would not allow me to return afterward. For a year or so, they refused to take me to the dentist until a caries destroyed most of the crown of my tooth. I could not bite on that side for almost a decade afterward. They constantly made fun of my body due to my congential conditions and tried to isolate me from other people by telling me that doctors are evil, that I was disgusting and causing those conditions myself. They often pressured me into acting as their accomplice in breaking the law or exploiting others. If their dealings did not work out, they would blame me for being useless (book smart as opposed to street smart), that had it not been for me they would not have been stuck in poverty.
At my school, many teachers believed that smart people were "selling out the country and good for nothing". They harassed me for doing well in class, tried to fail my midterms by misgrading them, accused immigrants like me of "stealing jobs" from local students, tried to steer me away from applying to colleges. Bullies would beat students up, myself included, right in front of the adults because no one around cared. My parents were not willing to be involved with the authorities due to their fake immigration status but still wanted to pretend that moving to the new country was a "correct" decision. They sided with the teachers in saying that I would not be able to handle "real" academic workload and that intelligence is useless or even a liability. They said that as an ugly, defective person I should get used to abuses, because life was never going to be better.
To say the least, I hated almost everything then. Eventually I attempted to take my own life and have been struggling with the medical consequences ever since. I could work only odd jobs, although most of the times now I am no longer suicidal, so at least that's an improvement.
The linked ACE test is from 2015 and probably outdated.
*Admitted to a top-5 university globally with scholarship, many signs on the spectrum
I long ago gave up any faith in the "ADHD"/"Autism" religion, which has all the mechanics of a cult, and just decided to live my life without the labels given to our society by Nazi scientists.
It has been a huge relief, and frankly a major deal-breaker with regards to escaping the destructive feedback-loop of self-evaluation/comparison with others. The for-profit "ADHD"/"Autism" industry does not have the individuals' best interests at heart - it does, instead, wish to perpetuate its own culture - which fundamentally boils down to classism and authoritarianism, wrapped in a velvet glove of narcissistic self-loathing.
If this offends you, you're probably in that cult. Just think about it a bit more - in what way does it help you, personally, to evaluate another person and label them with these conditions - does it help you position your own life in such a way that you have a 'relevant' context, or does it fix a handle to that person with which you can further manipulate them? Just stop. Take a deep breath. Nobody in the world is helped by these labels.
>Currently, I look accomplished to people, but I don’t feel accomplished.
See, this is what I'm talking about. To which people do you 'look accomplished'? This kind of navel-gazing is self-destructive.
A cure for this behaviour is to take a long journey to another culture, step outside the total authority of the culture that makes you think this way, and re-evaluate the fundamental mechanics of your life. Your autism or ADHD can be cured with one week in a village, away from the machine, learning to catch and cook your own food, find your own shelter, dig your own latrine. It doesn't matter what 'mental illness' you think you have in comparison to others in your society - everyone needs to eat, sleep and shit - and that feeling of safety you feel you lack is going to be strengthened once you live in a jungle for a while.
In the jungle, "ADHD"/"Autism" are only as relevant as they provide you with food, water, shelter, sleep. Go live in it for a while, even if its just a vacation, and you'll feel much, much better about things. I promise.
(Note: fully expecting to be downvoted into oblivion for this, but it doesn't matter. I've got my next trip to the jungle scheduled already. The only thing I care about is that someone, somewhere out there, also has that jungle trip in their mind, on the horizon. I'm sure some of you will see this before the text fades into the collective, reactive oblivion...)
ACE score of 8. I grew up first generation Mexican American in a bilingual home (I spoke English with my siblings and Spanish with my parents). I'm the youngest of 8 and the only one to go to college; only half of us graduated from high school. I'm 40 now, married, the mother of 2 little girls, and a licensed mental health professional (my husband's in tech and told me about this thread).
I was sexually, physically, verbally, emotionally, and psychologically abused from birth through adulthood, with it slowing when I moved out of my parents’ home and only fully stopping when I went low-contact. I would regularly show up to school with bruises and cuts. As a 6-month-old infant, I was dropped on my head and shattered my skull due to severe neglect. I underwent 12 hours of emergency surgery and have a Grand Canyon of a scar running across my head. My sister tells me doctors said I would likely experience significant developmental delays and not be “normal”. My mother likely meets criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder (Sociopathy), and definitely meets criteria for Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and chronic PTSD with psychosis. My own diagnoses have included Major Depressive Disorder, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and Complex PTSD, and my first therapist was monitoring my symptoms for OCD-primarily for obsessive presentation, since my compulsions were mostly internal/mental.
I was ahead of the curve at math and science growing up, but struggled with reading comprehension and writing, likely due to the TBI and being bilingual. As a result, I wasn’t in the gifted and talented program, but still outperformed my gifted and talented peers in math & science, graduating with high honors. I have a BA in Economics. I worked in finance for 4 years after graduating undergrad and got my trading licenses. I eventually left to join the Peace Corps and picked up two more languages during my service. I then went to grad school for a Masters in Social Work to become a therapist as I wanted to help others on their healing journey.
I’ve struggled off and on with depression, anxiety, and suicidality since I was a teen. I started therapy when I was 24. I was depressed, anxious, dissociated, and miserable despite having done all the things that represented outward success. I had been trying to hold my shit together for three years at that point. My niece had died when I was 21 and that completely broke my history of complex trauma wide open as she was murdered by her mother- my brother’s ex. Even still, it wasn’t until a roommate, seeing me come home crying every day, told me to seek help that I sought out therapy, starting a healing journey that continues to this day. As an adult I still struggle with being hard on myself and self-worth despite being objectively accomplished.
Financially, I’m doing okay. I have my own private practice where I charge more than most in my field at $185 a session. I work very limited hours as my girls are still little, but I’m looking to double my earnings into the low six figures by next year while keeping to my part-time schedule. I don’t function well in a traditional 9-5 job. I still become overwhelmed at times with juggling parenting, my private practice, and my own trauma triggers and history but my mental and emotional health have become more manageable. I noticed a big shift into wellness last year once I went very low contact with my toxic parents and some of my siblings.
I’ve done a ton of EMDR therapy and believe it has helped me and continues to help me transform my endless list of traumas and negative self-beliefs. I don’t struggle with MDD or GAD or suicidality anymore. My main motivation to continue to heal myself has been to not pass down my inter-generational trauma to my beautiful girls. I don’t ever want to hurt them the way my mother hurt me, and I am proud of myself for being a good mother and providing a safe home environment for my girls.
I wish everyone on here all the best. The journey is hard, but healing is possible, one little step at a time.
ACE score of 5. I turned out badly. Rich, but badly. Just ask any of the data faking cheating scientists I channeled my trauma into exposing who got me kicked out of academia. But that's how I got rich. Money changes everything.
You will never feel safe. You will instead build a life, a portfolio, and a network of friends as a surrogate for feeling safe. And you can trust my words, I'm shadowbanned.
> Just ask any of the data faking cheating scientists I channeled my trauma into exposing who got me kicked out of academia. But that's how I got rich.
I don’t know what you are referring to, but I am curious. Would you explain?
It's the past. I've let go of it as much as I can. But I will always have what if questions about it. But broadly, academia was a dead-end. I should have never gotten a doctorate, it was a waste of time. And I doubly should never have done a post-doc because that's indentured labor. The day I left academia my salary more than tripled my income, an experience many sorts in AI encountered more recently. Unless one is born into wealth, academia is a horrible choice IMO. And too many of the tenured sorts calling the shots are some of the most unethical sorts I've ever met. Ironically, the most ethical team I ever worked with was at a hedge fund likely because it's pretty hard to hide the loss of funds at one. And everything else has been between those two extremes.
I never heard of the ACE score, I just took a quiz and I would score a 6. I am a failure since high school, never went to college and had a period of 12 years of scraping the bottom of the barrel but I got a tech support job through a friend after not touching a computer for 15 years and then retaught myself programming after not doing any since middle school. managed to leverage that into a job at a quant trading firm by luck. I am still a failure but I have used my ability to learn and absorb information to build a stable life. success is always just beyond arms reach but luckily success doesnt matter I am just happy to be alive able to keep learning and making things. and now I have LLMs to help me
I find it hard to call what I went through "trauma" when compared to other situations people have posted - they definitely had it a lot harder than I had. It's hard to not compare your upbringing compared to other and minimize your trauma.
Anxiety, Depression, ADHD. Verbally and occasionally physically abusive father, with an emotionally absent mother and an intellectually/mentally disabled brother. If I had to draw a comparison - it was like being a kid in a family where the parents should have divorced decades ago but stayed together "for the kids".
I never felt comfortable with bringing anything about my life up with either of my parents as they'd fight and argue all the time, and they'd never really _listen_ to me when I had problems. So I absorbed myself in the internet on the computer I was given one Christmas when I was 9 years old. Not a healthy environment for a kid - 4chan, porn, etc. all had their effects on me.
Now I'm looking back through all the arguments, all the fights, all the emotional breakdowns I had, all the gaslighting, all the lies, manipulation tactics, etc. and I can't help but be depressed about it - so many times I passed the guidance councilor's office at school and thought "man, I could just walk in there and say my dad yells at us all the time, and my life could have been much different". So many times I wanted to do things but I was just too scared and didn't have a person in my life to support me.
Personally, I wouldn't say I'm successful - though that's probably because of my lack of motivation. I work remotely for a larger IT firm in eastern Canada and make okay money (Canadian economy taken into consideration), but I struggle so much with pushing myself and goal setting, time management, etc. I was never able to figure out what I really wanted to do because I was living life for my parents and not for me.
I struggle with social situations because I don't feel valued. It's hard for me to make friends (especially when you're in your late 20's early 30's), I feel like everyone has moved on with their lives and I'm still stuck here the way I'll always be - the party's over and I'm standing at the empty bar, getting in the way of the cleaners vacuuming up the floors of confetti for a party I showed up to 10 minutes before it ended.
As I get older I'm coming more and more to terms with the idea that I'll never be in any kind of relationship and/or have kids because of how messed up I am mentally - I push people away from me when they try to get close because I'm horrified of rejection. Biological clock ain't getting any younger either. I never know what to say or how to interpret things in conversation - doc says it's from my inexperience, but part of me wonders if it's a hint of Autism that's undiagnosed.
To avoid this being even more of a somewhat glorified trauma dump - for anybody else reading these situations, if you're suffering from trauma, please get help if possible. I hope there are free or low-cost options wherever you live, whether a phone hotline, support groups, etc.
You don't get to take the easy way out while the rest of us have to stay behind and suffer! ;-) /s
This is cathartic. Thanks.
ACE 8. I was often hungry and cold. and sometimes homeless. I was poor in an area stricken with poverty (appalachia). I lived in a home that didn’t have half of an exterior wall, and we only had a kerosene heater. Often, there was no electric. We originally didn’t have plumbing except for an outhouse (luckily a federal program forced a corrupt contractor to tack on a shoddy bathroom to the house). No birthday or christmas presents.
School was terror. I had one outfit and shoes without bottoms. A gang of boys would wait outside for me everyday until evening. I’d hide in the woods until the path was clear. Teachers would assult me. The principal put me in the hospital. The police would harrass us. The police arrested my brother for skipping school, and he ended up in juvenile detention for a year.
Sexual abuse, mental abuse, physical abuse. It felt constant. My peers fared worse surprisingly. 20 friends dead before I was 24 (including two best friends and three girlfriends. Health problems, violence, suicide, drug overdoses, accidents.
I effectively moved out at 14. I exchanged sex with older women for room and board. I continued my schooling though.
I really lucked out honestly. Getting into the gifted program was by far the most important thing that could have happened to me. I somehow made it to undergrad. A friend turned me on to computer science when I was a junior. I spent my life savings on my first computer. I had terrible study skills and only graduated because I could derive stuff from first principles.
My first job had me in a cubicle with my face to the wall. Because of previous trauma, I involuntarily jump when people come behind me. So, the job was stressful. I fired up a spreadsheet and figured I could retire early if I kept increasing my wages and reducing my expenses.
I was never good at programming, but I was great at innovation and execution. I eventually got a role director of a consulting company in 2009, and I was making $150k. I felt like a badass. But, it’s been downhill from there. I have a problem with burning bridges.
I’m late 40s now. I ‘retired’ during the pandemic. I’ve really struggled since then. I have little direction and self-medicate most days. I’m suicidal most days, but I keep going because I feel I owe it to all the friends I’ve lost.
I doubt anyone will read this, but if you do, thanks for listening.
Internet friend… please talk to someone. Use the 988 line. Mental health is only different from physical health because of societal norms. I don’t know you but please know your short description here stoked compassion in a stranger. Your life has value and meaning and impact. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for your kind and empathetic words. I’ll probably be ok. I’m medicated and my therapist and psychiatrist are aware of my ideation. I have a very supportive spouse. I live an upper middle class life. When my ideation moves into active planning is when I reach out for additional help. Honestly, I feel very fortunate.
Did not have it nearly as bad as you but do struggle with similar issues on occasion, ultimately concluding I am fortunate and have a good situation now. But you know who I feel very bad for, is the coming generations. I feel like our age group has been so lucky to be around when the computer/internet revolution blew up. But it feels like it kinda settled down now, and there is no more easy access to it for bright young people. I hope I am wrong.
I really worry about them. We had the opportunity to build an entire industry and get in early. There were few of us (because only us 'nerds' were into computers in the 90s). And, demand increased exponentially. But, the industry has matured, the market feels saturated now. We've pumped up STEM programs to the point where everyone is doing software. I want to know how I can give back.
> ACE 8
I married a woman who scores the same. There's so much to say. But here, I think the best thing to say is that, after years in therapy, she's finally reached the point where she feels like things might turn out OK. I know that might not mean much, if anything, to you, especially in dark moments, but maybe, hopefully, it adds a bit of fuel to the part of you that hopes things can get better.
ACE 8 is very high. Too high. I'm only ACE 4 and feel like there was significant trauma in my life. I cannot imagine the struggle and hardship attached to ACE 8.
Please get some help, friend. You are too young and have much to contribute to the world. Some help and guidance will help you pull through this tough phase. 45-48 is a depressing time for most people. You will get through this.
I read it. I'm so sorry for what you went through, and that times are hard. Sending hugs your way.
Late 40s - you have so much of your life ahead of you! Are you medicated (with e.g. actual antidepressants)? Please explore that avenue as thoroughly as you can before doing anything drastic.
We read it, and we're listening.
Thank you for sharing your story. I hope you get the help you need.
Thanks for sharing. Hold on there, the world needs you.
> I eventually got a role director of a consulting company in 2009, and I was making $150k. I felt like a badass... I ‘retired’ during the pandemic. I’ve really struggled since then.
Honest question. I have often thought that not everybody enjoys retirement. Some people struggle to find a meaningful purpose on their own. Do you think you are in that group? And have you considered going back to work?
Wow. I didn’t expect so much response.
A little late now, but I wanted to clarify my thoughts. Being “Gifted” is far from enough. My three siblings were also considered gifted, but they didn’t do as well. My two sisters were impregnated in their teens which limited their opportunities. My brother ended up enlisting and is now a disabled veteran (and active conspiracy theorist). Of my gifted class, I believe at least 40% didn’t graduate. The ones that did well were the ones you’d expect to do well: children of lawyers, doctors, etc.
I think other factors were as important to me: curiosity, academic motivation, self-image. When I was young my aunts would tell me, “you look like you’re going to be successful some day.” And, that kind of became a prophecy to me.
You are seen and heard. Please do reach out to 988 or similar for help. No one should go through this alone or doubting that they are loved and worthy. You are both.
please call the hotlines when you feel this way. there are people who want to help and are super equipped to do so.
even your post here makes a difference, it helps others feel seen to know that they're not alone in feeling this way sometimes. you matter, your presence matters, we need you here and you are deserving of love and happiness. please don't give up.
I've read this, I have little to offer, especially from this far away.
However, I believe in you. I hope this helps.
You'll figure it out, sometimes doing nothing is exactly what is needed.
Look around you, lack of direction and medication/distraction is everywhere, and unfortunately suicide.
I would never judge anyone for wanting an easy out.
But I do feel its missing the point of the experience.
What is your passion? What makes you excited/happy?
Yeah, I'll definitely figure it out. I'm actually a fairly positive person. It's just that the brain chemicals distort my thinking, unfortunately. I'm working on a few things, and going through exercises to retrain my brain. My main issue is lack of direction. Lately, I've been happy making generative art and building things in Blender. But, I'm not sure how to turn that into something that's useful or productive.
I would say to hell with useful, being useful is for tools, focus on happy/excited and that will eventually lead to the right place.
Feeling that you have a role to play, a unique contribution to society that is appreciated, is not really the same thing as useful. But it's where you want to aim. And that includes figuring out what you are supposed to do, which is where joy/excitement plays an important role as a guide.
Letting other people's expectations define your life will never work, enough people have tried and failed by now.
That might be part of the trouble. I have a similar drive to always be productive. I'm not sure how to describe it other than I get depressed when I have nothing to accomplish. Maybe making generative art in itself is good enough but if you need a goal, maybe turn it into some kind of charity exercise.
Maybe go back to your appalachian roots and chop some wood or whittle some sticks. I've found it therapeutic.
This is probably one of the things that you can and should take a lot of time with. Being suicidal is not an entirely rational place, so you cannot completely rely on your own thoughts and feelings, that's why it can be so difficult to deal with. If you are a "better version of yourself" today than yesterday, or improving other people's lives even if it's just one more person's overall, you are already making a positive difference!
Hello there, hope you are doing okay. I am sorry I haven't done the ACE test, but I am neurodivergent to a small extent for sure. Sorry for the long post in advance. Since you're talking about being suicidal, let me help you out.
But before that, I will share what I can only call the most unique and unusual thing that ever happened in this world - my own life. I hope my life story will help you relate to yours to some extent so you feel better. Note: You can also connect to me and talk to me if you'd like to. We don't need to reveal any identity or information to each other in any case.
I am exactly 35 years old and there's no other point of time in my life where I felt I've understood it this well. It's like I've figured it out from top to bottom and I just need to keep the consistency and balance for the rest of my life, to fill happiness in my family and actually within myself. But none of this was achieved without extreme suffering which led me to this point.
I was a very happy child and a truly gifted one. I had no diagnosis for any conditions since I was thriving all my childhood, and I was very social and had a lot of friends. I started out as a kid who would paint and draw really at a very advanced level. There was no other kid in my entire school who was like that. I had, (and still have) an incredible memory and a very strong focus on things that I worked on. I remember that as I grew up I started seeing details in things no one around me would notice. I was very creative, and I was obsessed with a few subjects like blocks, making small buildings, building small gadgets etc. I had that "engineering" sense of things from the get-go. In the beginning I struggled to understand mathematics, but something clicked one day and I started acing it left and right. I was the school topper for more than 2 years and when I left to college, I struggled for a bit with video game addiction. Thanks to my parents and family, they shut me out and threw away all my gaming setups for the better. Immediately after that happened, my academics came back in full swing and I was back in the top ranks again.
I also developed an addiction to porn that started at age 16. I had access to internet and a lot of free time as well, so I used it to browse for more and more porn resources, and made a huge catalog of stuff. At the age of 19, intrusive thoughts kicked in to my mind out of nowhere. They quickly occupied my entire days and hurt my self-esteem to the point where I was kicking and beating myself for being a really "bad guy". Instead of letting things go, my mind kept the battle with intrusive thoughts going, and that enormous amounts of stress affected my looks and self-esteem. And then, the downfall began. Then, as things got worse, I started my first job out of college and I gave up on my mental health issues. I woke up every day to see it as an ongoing battle with my anxiety, and it only got much worse. I absolutely suffered with extremely high anxiety for two years. Frankly, I don't even know how I was still alive going through all that. I was still never diagnosed of any condition nor was aware that this sort of mental conditions actually exist and are recognized. I was always in belief that I was just a bad guy and a loser. Self-esteem took a very heavy hit. I researched and for the first time I found out it was something called OCD. And given all of my inattentiveness and social issues, I also figured out that it was ADHD. To cope up, I visited prostitutes, and engaged in risky sex with them while still in a relationship, because I wasn't getting "good sex" within the relationship. I still had a massive confidence issue at that time, and my physical health was declining. I married someone and things were never very good between me and my wife. I continued to visit prostitutes. In retrospect I should have divorced my wife, but I never thought what I was doing was such a serious thing. Frankly, I never thought I would fully "recover" from my mental issues, but I did. My newborn kid was the source of all that confidence. He truly gave me immense happiness, and it was also the time that I realized that this sort of happiness trumps any kind of sexual pleasure and things like those.
Recently, my kid was recently diagnosed with autism and it was shattering. He's doing a lot better now, and since his diagnosis ever came through, I've been a completely different man. In the early days of his diagnosis, life was very scary, and I cursed and blamed myself for giving it to him. My neurodivergence and all the stress/anxiety is most likely the reason for his diagnosis and it didn't have to be that way. I never told anyone about any of my mental health issues and my history of cheating btw. I cried in isolation for months, and was sleepless, and I was depressed, for not doing the right things in life and bringing my life, my kid's life and my wife's life to such a shape. I absolutely hated myself.
Depression took over me more, and I decided to commit suicide. I was so serious about it that my view of the world started feeling different, and I suddenly started losing the sense of "me" in this world and started looking at myself from a 3rd person perspective. It was weird. I watched documentaries and stories of people who lost others to suicide and related them to myself. I wanted to make sure my family is not hurt when I go. It went on for a couple of months. I wanted to make sure everyone around me aren't disturbed so I researched some good methods to end myself and leave behind what others, including my family could use and benefit from. I set a date and made a plan for doing it. When it came closer, my kid started inspiring me by showing promise and improvement that turned out to be a last piece of hope for me. Maybe it was a signal for me to stop, I don't know. I love my little guy and the things he does so much. There is that unwavering honesty and happiness within him that I love so much. When my dad passed away, I pledged to him that I will work hard to make sure I will teach my kids what he taught me, and to share and spread love and be happy.
I stepped back from the suicide plan, and I am doing considerably better now. My son continues to show promise, and I am trying real hard to be there for him. My marriage is in such a situation that a divorce at this time would not do my wife and my son very good, and will in turn ruin their mental health. At this time, I feel like I've become an expert in understanding myself. My extramarital sex has ended forever. Nothing can change that.
Will I tell anyone the truth about my extramarital sex stories? No. It took a long time for me to understand that because, my mental health and the extreme anxiety suffering that I spent with zero quality of life for years was already the price I paid for it. I do not need to be penalized any more. I am going to work for my wife and my kid. I am going to make sure she is happy and that he will have the utmost success in his life. And as someone who saw the pitfalls, I will stand behind him like a mountain to guide him at every stage of his life. Am I doing the right thing? yes, I am. So I am not and must not be afraid. If god kept me alive, there is a reason, and I am here to churn and squeeze out the best out of every day in the remaining part of my life. Here's to my story, that almost makes me feel like I have been born again.
@afpx, if you're considering suicide, think again, because you could say there would be nothing worse than what I've been through, in this world. And I'm still alive. Try to find and dedicate yourself for something genuine. After reading your story, it seems like your time to shine has started late. I would recommend to find some way of helping people out. There are many people in this world who want to live but are not able to, because of money and food. Do what inspires you. Maybe get your physical health and diet under control, that impacts a lot of well-being. Please reach out if you would like to and I can talk more. Thanks
I suffer from anxiety and OCD although not diagnosed. I feel immense pain seeing many of my personal projects left at a standstill on my table because I get anxious about some random thing and get obsessive thoughts of it especially losing everything. This has devastated my personal life and relationships. I remember as a child crying and telling my parents about this but they took it as me making excuses to not work.
How did you manage to handle your anxiety and OCD? I am taking steps where I just start and that puts me on a groove and I forget most of my problems including my environment but the biggest problem I face is to just start. I kind of feel ok when I have people around but when I am alone it is a complete mess.
I can relate to you - I've been through a lot of shit with my OCD but I have finally figured it out. I found that in my case, diet plays a huge role. If I consume sugary crap it ruins my day, whereas something fresh like a lot of fruits and vegetables promotes calmness on the inside. Along with that, fitness is another thing that worked wonders. I would be on turbo mode with my mind working 3x more effectively with 0 anxiety after a quick workout and it would stay that way for a long time during the day.
For psychological changes - I trained myself mentally to not care about any shit so much actually, and I made it a habit of giving my best at everything I do, regardless of the outcome. I was a huge underachiever for a long time and a vast majority of the reason for all that was basically my own fear of failing. Once I started to only care about investing my best effort and not thinking about the results, I started to see some stellar consequences. The other piece of puzzle is to keep myself busy and occupied. It works wonders and gives me that calming feeling when I am focused on things. Working on my favorite projects is another plus. It will be a plus in your case too, I am sure.
I found that my neurodivergence is also my superpower that helps me identify and think of solutions incredibly quickly and effectively. That gave me a lot of confidence. I've been on a roll ever since. I keep pushing myself to higher limits that my baseline is now high by default. I have mentally trained myself in such a way that success is the only thing I live for now, and I am not going to settle for anything less than extraordinary. I will make sure my son also gets this sort of coaching from me from the get-go.
In your case with the projects you have at hand, I will recommend attacking them one at a time, and not touch others until you arrive at a closing point for the current project. That will surely reduce the mental load. Also, doing things to improve your outlook on your own self works wonders. It provides positivity and self-belief. You can do this.
ACE of 8. Only child, single mother with psychiatric problems, absent dad with psychiatric problems, I was nearly killed by him at age 4, homeless twice before I was ten, no extended family to rely on at all. Mom died of Dementia at 65 when I was barely 30, and I took care of her starting when I was 25, giving up a great job in Boston.
I'm a VP of IT in a healthcare company, my third healthcare gig with this particular $12b PE investment firm. I was previously CIO twice at the others, first rising up from IT Director to Executive Director of IT, then CIO. I've been doing IT for 30+ years, and I'm damn good at it. I just cut our phone system expenses by $300k/yr, and I'm in a project to cut our EMR expense by 70% over the next 9 months. I've been a service tech, salesman, programmer, writer, author, datacenter admin, network admin, web developer, dotcom startup "CIO", and more.
I work hard, I care tremendously for my family and my employees, I love where I've managed to get, and I'm not done yet,
Hopefully this is not too tangential, but it's something that's been on my mind a bit recently.
When you had kids (or I guess anyone who is considering having kids), did you ever fear of "passing down" your trauma?
I feel that us tech workers, for all intents and purposes, have "made it," which might best position us in general to overcome and prevent a cycle of trauma to the next generation.
Yes. The fear is real, and 100% more tangible when you're holding your child the first few times. Overcome with love, joy and sadness because you cannot comprehend how anyone could treat someone that they love so deeply in a bad way.
I don't think "made it" is the differentiator here. It's more about emotional maturity and acceptance that you're chiefly responsible for another human beings experience of the world: What you put in can set them up, or break them down.
That said, I created some rules for myself:
I'm sure my list will grow. My daughter is 2. I try to live with integrity, honesty and love. What I get out is pure unfettered joy.#1 is exceptionally powerful. My parents never lied to me or attempted to deceive me. They always emphasized telling the truth, no matter how painful the consequences might be.
I’ve seen other families that lie to each other about the most trivial of things and it ends up with them all constantly feeling gaslit and not trusting each other. How horrible it would be to not have that feeling of safety and security with your own parents.
This is why we never did even ostensibly innocuous lying like Santa Claus.
Is #5 really that bad? Kids can be real shitheads sometimes, but you have to be willing to really go through with it.
A well-meaning but frustrated parent might try that move in the moment but not consider what it could mean from their child's perspective. "My parent could leave me" should never be a potential consequence for misbehaving.
They're probably more aware of it because of worse things they've endured like it. A severe example is kicking your kid out of the car and driving off without them. Or packing them a bag and forcing them out of the apartment.
This. I was in the car with my mom and I wouldn't shut up. She told me to and if I didn't, she'd make me walk home. Open my mouth I did!
I walked maybe 2 miles home. Stopped in every store/business where I knew someone. I stopped in the stationary store, the little 5 and dime, a doctor's office. Said hello and chatted a bit. I had to have been 7 or 8. Some folks asked where my mom was and I told them what happened. I have no recollection of what they said. All I know is that I walked on home. Thank goodness there were sidewalks and that I knew where I was going.
What had a much greater negative effect was the walkathon. I was a fat kid and somehow decided I was going to walk 20 miles to raise money for some charity. No one, most of all my father, thought I would walk more than a couple of miles. So neighbors, friends, colleagues of 'rents pledged $20/mile.
Day of, my friend and I were told to go to friend's mom's office when we finished and she'd drive us home. Off we went! Thank goodness we had some idea where we were. It took us all. day. long. We went to a wedding, watched some cute guys play basketball, admired gardens, and talked and talked. We were at the tail end and had no idea if anyone was in front of us or what time it was. Got to the center of town and the organizers had packed up. We had to walk probably 1/2 mile to friend's mom's office. . . and I finally showed up at home and it was like I'd never gone! Sometimes the walkaton pops into my head and I wonder how the hell my parents were not worried about me. More now that my mother has moved in with us and we talk more. I actually asked her about it the other day and she remembers nothing about the walk other than I walked all 20 miles.
End of the world? Absolutely not. But it sure taught me about what my parents thought I could do.
#5 is the only one I do, but because I never thought about it as a fear mechanic - I'll definitely avoid doing this now. That said, what's a good alternative? Sometimes you don't have time to bargain, is picking them up kicking and screaming actually better?
>but you have to be willing to really go through with it.
you have to really be willing to leave them?
Yes, it is that bad. I used to do it a lot. Didn't help the slightest. As soon as I adopted an "I'll do it for you" strategy everyone's lives started to improve. Even mine.
Yes, it is that bad. I used to do it a lot. Didn't help the slightest. As soon as I adopted an "I'll do it for you" strategy everyone's lives started to improve. Even mine.
Yes, #1 really is that bad. Especially for _small_ children.
Yeah my 10-month old son asks for me constantly(da da di da ta ti) if I'm away from him for more than a few hours. Separation is really tough for them to deal with because they don't have the tools or sophistication to understand why we're gone and that we're coming back. I had to spend a few weeks away from him when he was 4 months when my wife needed to be somewhere with a working kitchen and a clean floor and I needed to repair our kitchen and I think he was "colicky" during that time because he didn't understand where I was or when I would be back. This persisted during the week and then when I would spend the day with them he would calm down.
It's threatening abandonment if they fail to comply with whatever whim you have. It's actually one of the most traumatic things you can do to a small child - because they've learned what you want is all that matters, and if they don't guess what you want properly, they'll be left without a parent.
So yeah - it's pretty bad.
That makes sense. So, how get kid outta playground?
That's a great list; while not explicitly writing them out, we raise our kids by similar rules, and I think it's been a huge help. #1 is huge. We also explicitly answer any question they ask (barring privacy concerns). The answers vary based on how old they are, and what they're capable of understanding, but they can always ask for more detail if we guess wrong. It lets them know that there are no taboo subjects with us, and they can always come to us with their hard questions.
It did mean nuanced conversations about how not to ruin the "Santa Clause game" for other kids, etc.
Corollary to #1: never lie to adults who are close to you.
Is there a more complete list by someone else?
> When you had kids (or I guess anyone who is considering having kids), did you ever fear of "passing down" your trauma?
No kids yet because of exactly what' you've said. I was not going to have kids until I could give them a better life, even if that means I never have them. We're actually trying now because I'm comfortable with my life and skills now.
Not OP or a parent, but this is absolutely a fear of mine. I don't think I'd be actively bad for them, passively lacking in critical areas like emotional support.
Hell, I don't have the energy or social skills to get to that point. Either I or the other person move on, so I just optimize the process.
"I'm damn good at it. I just cut our phone system expenses by $300k/yr, and I'm in a project to cut our EMR expense by 70% over the next 9 months."
Tell me you work in PE without telling me you work in PE.
I told you I work in PE, but that's not the point of the statement. I cut spending and improve services because I know how to spend properly. The phone system changeover gained us a lot of functionality and ease of use while cutting spending dramatically.
Same with our EMR. We can get better for less, that's what I do. PE isn't the only sector that wants to cut unneeded costs.
"PE isn't the only sector that wants to cut unneeded costs."
But PE stereotypically cuts cost in a shortsighted way.
ACE score of 8. I’m happy, live a life I find deeply meaningful and fulfilling, don’t suffer from any depression, I have a wife and two kids. I’m the happiest I’ve ever been in my life. My teens and 20s were really rough, I spent a lot of time ruminating and just being a sourpuss. But I mostly knew I didn’t want to be like the people I’d been surrounded by when I was a kid. I got over it and stopped worrying about it so much. I’m lucky I found a good wife, we’ve talked for probably thousands of hours about our childhoods and worked out a lot of stuff. I feel like I’m continually improving. I just don’t worry too much, in my 20s I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression but those are basically non existent now.
The thing I purposely try to avoid when starting a new job is talking about my upbringing and background too early. I didn’t tell people at my current job my youngest daughter is in a wheelchair until about three months in. I let people form their judgments from how effective I am at work, then reveal more about my personal life. That first impression is so important. If people think you’re damaged goods from the get go you’ll get their pity, which is not what you want. You want their respect. Pity in a workplace means career death.
I’ve started riding my bike regularly which seems to have a very similar effect to taking Adderall. I use super bright lights in my home office during the winter. Home cooked meals improve my overall mood by leaps and bounds.
> I use super bright lights in my home office during the winter.
I started by bouncing several shop lights off the ceiling.
That was so effective, during a remodel I recessed long LED light strips hidden behind cove molding around the whole room perimeter, to do the same. My whole ceiling is the light. An indoor sky.
No glare, just a bright summer day, every day!
Do you have a write up of how you did this?
Ali-express = cheapest, Amazon faster. They have long strips of LED lights, some one color, some various whites of whatever K you desire. Getting more complex there are several types of addressable chips and controllers to do this. Cheapest is white arrays of the white you like, typically 8 foot strips you attach as needed or buy the accessory attachment strips in 2 foot shippable lengths, in aluminum or plastic to make ceiling/edge/window lights as you wish. Costs range for $10-15 for each 8 foot length (addressable a bit more). Addressables are made on 3-4 different base chip types. youtube has detailed explanations and builds on the various chip families. I find occasional LED sales booths at the Rancho Cucamonga flea markets, and probably at all the larger ones, with full sales/demo setups you can buy then and there or get them online and save a little. Watch power supplies and look for proper UL/approved wall warts - many are fake UL, so check for isolation between +/- and both AC line prongs as the fakes UL often lack isolation and 2 different ones 'can' have full AC on different prongs and a shock hazard might exist -be wary. 12 volts is the common voltage used and if you use USA made wallwarts you can avoid these risks.
To your point about first impressions, I appreciate hearing a similar outlook about such circumstances.
I have pretty severe scarring from a thing I am afflicted with, and it's very noticeable. I will often cover them up for the first few months. I am not shy about them at all, I do everything else with them visible. Shopping, gym, out with friends etc. But I gain nothing from that in the workplace, and stand to lose face in certain scenarios in the early phases.
Dating is different, all visible, all cards out on the table. If that detail about me would cause issues for them I'd like to know ASAP.
Concur regarding the bike, it's as good as a nootropic.
This is the first time I've heard of an ACE score; I had to look up what it stood for: https://www.christineortollcharity.org/post/adverse-childhoo...
I suspect I'm not the only one here in this boat.
My first time hearing of it too, am ACE 10.
In my mid 40s and have been having an increasing desiring for no particular reason to unpack some baggage. I think I’ve done ok in life generally, much better than the course my childhood put me on, but I think I’ve suppressed a lot of stuff and ultimately is starting to wear me down. Most notably, I just feel like a fraud a lot of times. My peers talk about how they did stuff in college and before (stuff normal people got to experience I didn’t, going on family vacations and being social in college) and I end up just laughing and making some jokes and stuff but never have similar stories to share.
I’ve completely disconnected with my family as a coping mechanism for example but now that I have a young kid asking about his family on my side it’s bringing up some weird emotions I hadn’t experienced or thought I had dealt with. Idk. Maybe therapy is in my near future so I’m glad this is being openly discussed here.
Therapy is definitely the way to go here. They're professional unpackers. Plus I've never heard someone say they regretted starting therapy. I've heard a lot of people say they regretted quitting or waiting to start.
My wife had a really bad experience with therapy when she went with postpartum. It's not all sunshine and roses, and they can and will switch from "I care about you and want you to get better" to "I might need to send people over to your house who can separate you from your child" pretty quickly. Not seeing the therapist anymore produced a marked improvement in her affect.
I’m kind of worried about something like this where it backfires. Not sure it would be the therapist’s fault but in terms of an “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”. The nagging curiosity of wanting to unpack my baggage is so insanely small. I am mostly fine and don’t dwell on it much at all. As I’m beginning to think it would be nice to verbalize the past a bit and how that’s made me who I am, I’m also not necessarily looking for change and it seems overwhelmingly risky that opening the bottle may actually cause me to get depressed or somehow interfere with the good in my present life. For that reason I’ve held off. It’s still a curiosity of mine, it’s also probably going to take hundreds of hours to fully unpack so it’s a little expensive too.
My dad — whose entire family was killed by the Nazis in Lithuania in 1941 after they'd enabled him to escape to Sweden and then the U.S. in 1939 when he was 17 — went back to his home there for the first time when he was in his 70s.
Upon returning home, he became VERY depressed and it persisted for the remaining 8 years of his life.
It was clear to me and my brother that the change from his normally upbeat and optimistic self stemmed from seeing in person the very places he lived and frequented and the memorials to those killed.
> I've never heard someone say they regretted starting therapy.
Let me be the first one then. I went in with an open mind. When the first one did not work, I tried another. After two years and zero benefit, I regretted spending the time. Cost was not an issue as it was covered by insurance.
In the end I concluded that therapy isn't for everyone. Many people do benefit from it, but many others see zero benefit.
It is also possible that I was not a good candidate for therapy because my issues were super minor.
> but I think I’ve suppressed a lot of stuff and ultimately is starting to wear me down.
Unpack it. It's easier than you think and more worthwhile than you might guess. It's not some massive liberating experience but it can remove some blocks and make change a more familiar sight in your life.
> and I end up just laughing and making some jokes and stuff but never have similar stories to share.
Things like this will "get in the way" a lot less often.
> bringing up some weird emotions I hadn’t experienced or thought I had dealt with
You have this perspective already. This is actually a great sign. Too many people find out at the end of a self inflicted tragedy.
> In my mid 40s and have been having an increasing desiring for no particular reason to unpack some baggage.
ACE 6 for me.
40s is when it caught up with me, and of course kids exacerbated it for me too there was a lot of people and places I never wanted to see again, in fact when I met my wife I told her I was an orphan!
As I got older I started feeling genuinely alien to my coworkers, they are so happy and their parents loving and their upbringings wholesome. I just feel absolutely stunted by comparison, half-developed, half-grown. Weed helped me process a lot of my feelings and anger I guess, that's good enough for me but as Rambo says: "I’ve not changed. I just try to keep a lid on it".
Please consider therapy. ACE 10 is an incredible score. All this baggage you've been carrying, you don't need to carry it any further. Therapy will help you unload it all.
First time for me too… How is the ‘ACE score’ even validated for people not near the average?
Since presumably ‘former gifted children’ were in the 99th percentile, and above, during the relevant period.
ACE seems to be 10 questions where you get a point for every yes, to assess childhood trauma.
A 10 is the max and a 0 is the min. Based on the questions, any score above 0 indicates some level of real trauma.
>any score above 0 indicates some level of real trauma
I got 1 with no trauma, but the questions vary significantly in "weight" and the one I went 'yes' on was alcoholism (and with no abuse or anything else, so it's definitely better than the questions like SA from a family member etc.)
Did you respond to the wrong comment?
My question was trying to expand on what the linked article already says.
Perhaps I misread your comment?
It looked like you were associating ACE with a gifted indication. My mistake.
I wasn’t associating ‘ACE’ with anything, it’s the other way around…
i.e. How do we know that anyone, associating any ‘ACE score’, with those far away from the average, is valid? as opposed to random conjecture?
I have no opinions on whether any ‘association’ exists at all or not, but clearly at least a few dozen do, hence me asking the question.
It’s defined in the link at the end of the post.
Should I have to click on a link to find out what an acronym cited in a post means?
It’s not unreasonable to expect, but also in this case the meaning of the acronym doesn’t really matter as much as the meaning of the score. The link does to a page that lets you do the quiz and see your score, so it’s worth clicking.
Offline/PDF: https://www.acesaware.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/ACE-Que...
Yes. It’s called hypermedia.
Yes, especially if you're going to post. The expectation is that if you're posting you've read the article.
Yes
OK. My comment-question has been downvoted and I've been told by a number of HN readers that YES — I SHOULD "have to click on a link to find out what an acronym cited in a post means."
From now on when I comment using medical acronyms like AKA and AMA I will not spell out what they stand for (as I've always done up to now as a courtesy to readers so they don't have to sidetrack themselves looking it up) but rather will provide a link.
https://www.asha.org/practice-portal/professional-issues/doc...
No, but if they fail to explain it yes.
Yes, reading an article to understand the headline has always been a critical part of news ingestion.
I dunno man, but your reply with a link and no definitions didn't address that.
ACE 4. I generally feel like adult life is very difficult for me, but I'm a fully functional adult. I'm in my 40s, married with young children. I suffer from depression, but I've come to terms with the fact that I'll be living with it forever. I'm totally functional otherwise. I have a career in software, a mortgage and I'm in good physical shape. I've spent a bit of time lately thinking about how childhood trauma may have affected my adult life in negative ways. I get bored and disillusioned easily in jobs, and find myself changing jobs every 18 months on average out of sheer frustration with how unfulfilling they are. I find myself annoyed at bureaucracy, and get impatient with less competent people. I never express my frustrations with them, but I feel a lot of negative emotions about my coworkers. One day I'd like to make some effort to address my frame of mind.
I'm in basically the same situation, although not quite 40. My ACE score is 1 or 2 - I didn't have a very traumatic childhood, but I was an only child and my parents were never really mentally present for me. My parents themselves had a pretty traumatic childhood and early adult life.
I went through my 20s by keeping my self busy with work and side-projects. I guess "high functional depressive" is the term. Financially I've done pretty well - changing jobs often has some perks. Working for early stage startups you can avoid a lot of the corporate BS which has become my niche.
The hardest part of life has been since I had kids. Trying to be present for them, and not making the same mistakes as my parents.
Anything you would have done differently in the past? You're describing me but two decades younger hahaha
It's really hard for me to answer this question. In hindsight, I feel like I should always have been more stubborn, more intransigent, more uncompromising. However, who knows how things would have really turned out if I'd have lived life like a wrecking ball.
For me the greatest help was therapy, and if advised by a professional, medication.
My ACE score is... Zero. I think it doesn't take into account other factors (e.g. being bullied at school, or being ridiculed by friends), as it focuses mostly on the family environment.
Anyway, it made me feel so lucky to go through the questions, and being able to always answer negatively. I felt so loved by my parents (more than what I already did).
I was gifted, for sure. I thought I had quite a hard childhood, but this puts things in perspective.
Totally agreed on the methodology concerns, looks like its trying to err on under reporting. ex all the questions specifying "an adult", which presumes there were adults to take care of you in the first place.
feeling loved is wonderful. alas it may have been missing additional support. especially if the parents also didn't have certain support they didn't know about it and didn't give it, without guilt.
> What is childhood emotional neglect?
> According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), emotional neglect is the inability of a parent/caregiver to connect with or provide for a child’s emotional needs.
does this ring a bell?
https://stopabusecampaign.org/2022/04/19/ace-101-childhood-e...
ACR score of 7 all the people involved in that score are dead save for 1. Don’t have any contact with that person except over a group SMS chat and it’s fine. I’m 48, married, two awesome teenage boys and doing well. Not sure why, all the therapists over the years I’ve seen with my wife are typically just perplexed by me. I do what brings me joy and take care of those that depend on me, that’s it. That strategy has worked out ok so far so I’ll keep doing it until it doesn’t. shrug
Do you agree with the assessment that having kids can help with handling of some of these growth or lack of development challenges? I've heard that from a few high-ACE score fathers and I appreciate the advice. My wife and I are heading that direction for multiple reasons, including my own personal growth.
ACE of 6, father of 3 under 7. I love fatherhood, but it is easily the most difficult leap of faith I've taken in my life. A majority of my coping mechanisms were based around quiet time to myself and that basically doesn't exist anymore for me.
Children are a deeply personal choice that make basically no sense. They are the ultimate selfless act, and much of the emotional damage children suffer is due to their parents not understanding this. They are exhausting, expensive, and time consuming... until you die. And every time you decide to use them for your own gain, it will cost them something.
To more directly address your point: children will force you to cope with their existence. Whether you have the ability to introspect on yourself during the process can turn that into growth is on you, not them.
This test is very easy for the victim of an active and damaging abuser to score 3 or less. This is at best a triage test to inform immediate intervention; it's definitely not something to inform an adult in retrospect.
Especially this caveat:
> Having a grandparent who loves you, a teacher who understands and believes in you, or a trusted friend you can confide in may mitigate the long-term effects of early trauma
While true, from experience all of them can contribute directly to that trauma instead.
(ACE 4 in my 40s. My grandparents were dead, my parents were both cops who prevented friends from contacting me and controlled my movement, my mother used my father's abuse of her to threaten me, and my kindergarten teacher had my school principal beat me so hard for talking in class that I was mute for two years and gained a speech impediment that took another five years to mitigate, and which still affects me when stressed.
Three unsuccessful suicide attempts before I was 20. I'm still scared to death daily that my parents will find where I live, learn that I'm married, contact my spouse's family or employers, etc. Fantastic therapists and found family are why I'm not in a grave.
My last contact with my parents was 2 years ago, when my mom tried to claim my dad was dying and they needed me to come home to deal with estate paperwork. It was bait; nothing was wrong with dad, and I found out only because I hired a lawyer and investigator to go visit them to confirm.
My late first spouse had an _even worse_ relationship with their parents, hadn't spoken to them in 20 years, and the only instructions they left before passing away were to not notify them of death or estate plans under any circumstances. Probably a 2 on their ACE.)
I'm very satisfied with my life. My only regrets are not getting further away from my family sooner or cutting off contact with them as thoroughly as my first spouse did.
ACE 5, though I think this is inaccurate because the quiz seemed to focus on issues with adults, whereas I had at least two instances of major trauma involving peers (and one shortly after starting college), as well as several low-grade, long-running stressors related to my race, stature, sexuality, etc.
As for my gifted bona fides, 9x%th percentile IQ and SAT scores, gifted/competitive STEM track through high school, my bachelor's degree cost me $5,000, total (tuition was $30k/yr; I wanted the nicer dorm). I often feel stupid, but apparently I'm not.
Currently unemployed (since the beginning of the pandemic). Living at home. Money is tight. Whatever's wrong with me, I really can't afford to get it treated. I wouldn't mind if I was making progress on things that are meaningful to me, but I have a hard time keeping focused, and being confident in my plans, goals, and abilities. I can definitely feel myself falling behind. No, that's incorrect. I've long fallen behind.
What I think separates me from some of the other boys I know who grew up similarly and who ultimately had more success: a more consistently positive social experience. (It probably helped that they were large for their age. Why? Enhanced benefit-of-the-doubt in matters of athletics, romance, and maturity, even if you're being weird or hyper or spazzy or moody, leading to fewer derails of your attempts to build relationships. Greater confidence, greater stability, greater shelter from the things about yourself and your past that you can't escape.)
I might also be a bit of an asshole.
Yeah, I found the quiz also not take into account the mother being the cause. As one question specifically mentioned mother or step mother being abused.
This excludes same sex parents and other forms of parental or guardian violence
My score was an 8. Depression of course. All the usual problems.Thought I was unhappy because no one loved me. Turned out to be the opposite. Found my own key to a joyful life at 31. Had my first child. Cared for someone else more than myself. Cut off all contact with my family 13 years ago, except my kids. Second best decision I ever made. Best was choosing to raise my girl on my own. You cant fix toxic people, but you can leave them. Later I met a woman who can tolerate me. She prefers to work, is very happy she met a man who would rather hang out with our kids than work. I read "The Happiness Equation in my late 40's, had already stumbled into my own life solutions, but that book really helped explain WHY I felt my life had improved so much. You can get to a mental place you feel safe. You only get so many trips around the sun, take them with a smile, never waste a moment comparing yourself to anyone else. Best of luck.
ACE 0. Feels abnormal looking at everyone here. I don't consider myself that successful. Very average or below in career and also extremely below average in life outside of work. Not very many friends, never been in a relationship (I'm old).
Maybe some trauma really is needed in your childhood to produce more drive.
I'm wondering what's the distribution of ACE.
Woah, I match every element of your description.
To answer the OP directly, I'm not satisfied with my life, and from my ACE score it's obvious that I have no one else to blame but myself.
The CDC website has some stats on ACE distribution [1]:
> ACEs are common. About 64% of adults in the United States reported they had experienced at least one type of ACE before age 18. Nearly one in six (17.3%) adults reported they had experienced four or more types of ACEs."
Interesting that zero ACE is a sort of minority.
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/aces/about/index.html
> To answer the OP directly, I'm not satisfied with my life, and from my ACE score it's obvious that I have no one else to blame but myself.
This isn’t fair to yourself, or anyone else reading this and feeling the same way.
There’s a difference between good parenting, bad parenting, and abusive parenting. Just because your parents weren’t abusive, doesn’t mean they were good at instilling all the useful and/or important values in you.
Also, there’s a difference between blaming your parents for who you are, blaming yourself for who you are, and accepting that things have happened, learning from them, and using it as the basis for growth.
Consider how old you are today. Consider what age your parents were during your formative years. The closer you get to being the same age your parents were, the easier I think it gets to recognise that your parents might have been much like you are: imperfect beings trying whatever resembled their best on any given day.
Ultimately, try to be kind to be kind to yourself, but also be accountable to yourself. Kind accountability tends to work better than blunt brute harshness (just like you catch more flies with honey…)
If you go here and scroll down to Recent Studies, you'll notice that there's many things the ACE test ignores.
But the extended list of adverse experiences is incomplete too:
https://www.christineortollcharity.org/post/adverse-childhoo...
> I have no one else to blame but myself.
Of course not! That sounds sad. (Also, some things just happen / are the way they are, without being anyone's fault)
But maybe you're the best person for doing something about things you aren't happy with :-)
If Ace 0 is a minority perhaps it's normal for people to experience trauma and this trauma is necessary.
You match me in every element, perhaps this outcome is expected for ACE 0. Or it could be confirmation bias.
Any other people with ACE 0 here? What is your life like?
> If Ace 0 is a minority
I don't think it is. In developed nations I'd guess that 0 is probably the majority (maybe 0, 1 and 2). The internet isn't the best place for these kinds of statistics. If they where everyone would be depressed, have contemplated or attempted suicide, have anxiety and a host of mental problems.
There is new research that suggests that talking about problem like depression may in fact cause depression and the internet is amazing at propagating the idea that all sorts of mental issue are something that everyone encounters.
My score was 0 and I have a happy, if middle class life and wonderful family. Stressful at times, but mostly not. It's also not terribly exciting, but that suites me.
> Maybe some trauma really is needed in your childhood to produce more drive.
No. You’re missing the people who don’t post on here, which are those who have died, those who are suffering too much to spend time here. This is a high privilege forum on average, and that there are success stories doesn’t mean it’s somehow good. Ask any one of us what we thought we could have achieved with a supportive “good enough” childhood and often you’ll get tears.
There are very few material benefits for people who climb out of holes, even if they’ve had to go twice as far as the person next to them. A deeper sense of peace or contentment, maybe. But most will compare a 40 year old who’s driven their way out fully out of hell and a 25 year old ready to see how high they can go and choose the one with more runway and less desire to care for themselves.
>No. You’re missing the people who don’t post on here, which are those who have died, those who are suffering too much to spend time here. This is a high privilege forum on average, and that there are success stories doesn’t mean it’s somehow good. Ask any one of us what we thought we could have achieved with a supportive “good enough” childhood and often you’ll get tears.
So you say. I still want data to back that up. What's the distribution? I probably can't get a value about how good people with an ACE of zero ended up.
But I can see a distribution and thus I can see which ACE number is at the tip top of the curve.
I’m going to have to ask you to google it or have GPT summarize it for you as it’s readily available.
Sure. But your statement alone without evidence at face value looks like something you just intuited without proof and out of thin air.
Hence it was reasonable to ask.
Some trauma can make for focus and push. Most everyone has some amount of trauma just for existing. Higher ACE scores correlate with much lower life expectancy and worse outcomes, far higher rates of suicide, mental illness, substance abuse.
It may make for extremely driven people! Maybe many of the people with the most drive get it from a reaction to trauma. That doesn’t mean that the average person does better with trauma though.
Check the CDC site on ACEs. Or almost any other site. The data is astoundingly clear.
I feel similarly. I've noticed nearly every form of self-help material I've read starts out with some trauma the author overcame. Anectodal evidence ofc.
I feel like there needs to be something that "kick starts" you to push yourself. I had a cushy, comfortable childhood that probably needed a bit more discomfort. My parents grew up in more challenging environments and did their best to not pass that on, maybe they did too good of a job. They have significantly stronger work ethic than I do.
Yea there's a lot of people with high trauma who don't make it (like some other posters have said) - we see the survivorship bias. But sometimes I wish I had a bit more kick in the ass younger because now I'm unable to do so to myself as an adult. Artificial trauma maybe suffices - like why is hazing for group bonding still a thing anywhere? Maybe college kids know what they're doing, and the occasional death is just the price we have to pay
Maybe I'm just ranting and none of this would help. I'm average because I'm lazy and it's hard to accept
There's many things the ACE test ignores. It seems to me it has a narrow focus. (Not saying there's anything wrong with that)
For example, bullying. Or if you yourself had some addiction. Or if you yourself had a mental illness, physical impairment, or if you're neurodivergent, and more things, I suppose, that don't come to my mind right now.
ACE 0 or 1 doesn't mean you had a good childhood
> Maybe some trauma really is needed in your childhood to produce more drive.
There's probably something there in terms of overcoming difficult situations.
You can achieve the same thing though without trauma, just by doing hard things or being pushed beyond your boundaries.
Go for a swim and hold your breath as long as you can. Then, push yourself to swim a few meters past the point where you held your breath. Keep going for a swim, keep pushing yourself past where you're comfortable.
Make it a habit to do this in various areas of your life - there's your drive.
You're not alone, ACE 0 and a decent job/life but reached KHHV wizardry recently; suspecting it's common in the hacker/CS community. At least, life in Europe is pretty peaceful, even without considering personal pain.
According to https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/998/096/4a3... there's two more stages afterward: wraith at 50 and overgod at 90. I shall expect your commands.
ACE 1, I think. I don't have many fond memories of childhood. Although my parents weren't monsters, I went to school in an area where high ACE schools would have been common, and being somewhat of a nerd was the odd one out, I struggled socially for my first few decades. There was no Internet in those days to find like-minded weirdos.
So, there is something to overcoming childhood adversity. Since the rise of the modern primary system for electing US Presidents most of our Presidents had traumatic childhoods(1). It seems like most of the people who want a stadium full of people chanting their names are trying to fill the hole where parental love should have been. Of course, most people don't grow up to be President, so I don't think this isn't something that you should be optimizing for!
I think where I ultimately come down on this (and I'm a dad so I've given this a lot of thought) is that a crappy childhood is a high risk play: it might give you a slightly better chance of a really amazing outcome, but at a much greater risk of a truly terrible outcome. A happy childhood doesn't guarantee anything, none of us are guaranteed anything. But it can make truly negative outcomes less likely- though again not impossible. So all things being equal, I want my son to feel loved.
1: Just looking at the Baby Boomer presidents, and staying far away from actual politics, Clinton was born William Jefferson Blythe, his dad died in a car accident before he was even born and his mom remarried and he was adopted. GWBush had a famously withholding and demanding mother and was viewed as the family scapegoat into his 30's- JEB! was the golden child in that family, George was the family screw-up. Barack Obama wrote an entire book (when he was a campaigning for an Illinois State Senate seat, long before he thought about running for President) about how he never really had a relationship with his father and what effect that absence had on his life. Donald Trump wears much of the damage Fred Trump inflicted on him on his sleeve.
I started writing a reply about my childhood. But then I realized I would be sharing more than I'm comfortable sharing in public, I don't even feel comfortable creating a throwaway account to discuss this stuff.
Opsec awareness is brutal on public socialization.
Even private socializing. How well do you really know most people when it comes to sensitive subjects?
Not the person you’re responding to, but I’m careful with what I share with people.
I once had someone share something rather personal, followed up with a comment that they suspected I’ve had similar experiences.
The reason? The language and phrases I use when referencing parents. Nothing negative per se, but the way in which I refer to them (example: my mother) and others. I was giving away more than I realized.
Which wasn’t so much of a concern in this context, but I’m more away of it now around people I don’t know especially.
(This comment actually puts me a little outside of my normal personal opsec, but I’m going to let it stand here)
Even something as simple as a single word can give away absurd amounts of information about us.
I used to be ashamed of my nationality and actively tried to hide it. I was very successful at it too, never had a single person identify me... Until I tried playing an MMORPG I used to play when I was a kid and was still learning English. Long story short, I misspelled the name of an item because of my childhood memories. Turns out that mistake was very specific to people of my country.
I once had my nationality "leak" just by the specific addition I chose when ordering a specific hamburger-like dish at a food-stall. Something akin to choosing to put mustard on a hot-dog kind of situation. The person looked at me, knew, got confused as I had a perfectly neutral and non-native accent, and then just had to ask to confirm their suspicion.
Mayo with fries would be a German likeness. Very odd in the States.
Yep. Supposedly you can match writing styles across accounts on the internet to identify someone.
Stylometry: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33755016 & https://web.archive.org/web/20221129004703/https://stylometr...
Yeah I think about this a lot. How much unspoken personal trauma lurks beneath anger online. When someone is angry at something anything could be a root cause but it isnt appropriate for onlookers to speculate or authors to be too open about, so it passes unnoticed. I feel all that tends to be absorbed in a two-steps-removed way through sensationalist headlines and related screeds and we don't think about the origins. Of course I can only speculate if this is true so it is no wonder we don't. The old adage is "their anger is about them not you" but although I lean towards this explanation it sounds like a necessary assumption sometimes.
I saw a comment from a foster parent that said we would find a cure for cancer before we find a cure for childhood trauma.
its honestly overhanded
unless you work in sensitive positions
nobody gives a f about you
just because the internet datamining bots don't care doesn't mean they won't create hyper-accurate portraits of your personal life, that can and likely will be sold, hacked, or leaked.
you have 0 reason to think they'll respect your life, and less reason to help them make money off of your misery. at least with a throwaway and some marginal protections like a VPN and browser fingerprint obfuscation you can feel mostly secure.
Maybe for you, or others: But I have some past stuff that applies to the ACE score, and absolutely no-one knows about it. Not my spouse, family, previous partners, friends, psychiatrist, counselors, and my children certainly never will. I'll very likely take it to my grave.
I also went through the exact same thought process, then I thought I could at least share my ACE score, and yeah, no. I noticed that the OP is using a throwaway account as well.
I'm fine, I'm CTO of a small game development studio/publisher in the south of Sweden.
I was born/raised in Coventry in the UK and I feel comfortable with the idea of never returning.
I find it hard to make friends, but that's a combination of being a migrant, being an adult and being considered "very intense" by many- I pour nearly all of my energy into work because on a subconscious level I am terrified of going back to those conditions. And the state of tech (and the gamedev industry) is giving me some generalised anxiety.
Truthfully, the way people talk about sysadmins and devops and SRE also worries me because that's my field of activity and people keep trying to kill off operations as a discipline...
Other than that, fine I think..
ACE 7.
P.S: that test was annoying because I hit the markers but someone worse off than me could hit the same markers and wind up with the same score. :\
Fully agreed. The oversimplification of the scoring system feels deeply wrong.
This test is actually fairly well validated. The purpose isn't to specifically diagnose your problems, it is to find the floor for how much trauma you may have experienced. Sure, some may have had parents under the influence occasionally while others witnessed heavy usage in front of them. The point is that even for the "light" case, that is a significant issue.
Think of it as childhood trauma triage. It is a good first pass to help people understand their past and maybe help some people understand that their past is more traumatic than they realize.
ACE of 9. Founded two successful alt-weekly newspapers, worked on world-famous collectible card games, lost it all due to illness that nearly killed me, recovering and slowly making my way back.
One thing a high ACE score did for me was make me an irresistible force, even as it seemed to turn the rest of the world into immovable objects.
I took the quiz, but am going to decline to give a score or other info. Maybe consider me to be qualified to comment, however.
I understand "unsafe', albeit this is a little vague. But I get it. Given that, I surmise that your core resultant issue is unyielding anxiety. That's rough, and arguably the roughest.
What you are likely missing is truly competent support. Which would be either a smart family member, a rare engaged friend, or a rare professional. That's what most Autistic 1 people will be missing: a talented mediator between them and the world. Double plus so if the patient has trauma (ie: ACE 6).
If you are lacking true support, you are lucky that you aren't underemployed or even homeless. In that, you are quite accomplished. Keep in mind that many or even most other people in your divergent position aren't so. Good on you.
In my opinion, everyone with Autism 1 should be considered to be at risk for homelessness and provided with engaged support by one institution or another (under insurance). And that there should be specialists trained to socially assist those with Autism 1. Not with social training, but with workplace and associated mediation. And then with expert career guidance as a distant second. Logically in my opinion, a next step for screening the homeless and drug addicts, after they get clean, should be for autism.
Relentlessly seek that support, even if you have to pay for it, in order to help to continue to assure your good status. It may take awhile to find, but the search doesn't start until it does.
I'm a little bit curious about comorbid autism and ADHD. I'd make a mid-confidence wager that you are referring to ADHD-PI. On a personal note, I think that ADHD-PI is usually if not always a symptom of Autism 1. In other words, it is a spectrum symptom. But if the meds help, then they do.
The co-occurrence of these conditions is an extensive area of research, there is some evidence which suggests what you’re saying, and other evidence which says the two conditions are distinct. I also read somewhere that both conditions are in fact part of a larger, underlying one. Here’s an interesting paper on the genetic profiles https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-022-01171-3
Thanks for sharing your insights, I think you’re absolutely right about the role and need for a mentor.
ACE is 7. Done more in the social realm and have a lot of friends and close relationships. Prioritized life stability in work over my 20s and early 30s to decent but not overwhelming success by self-teaching coding, but all of it started to unravel and I had to take years off from work to work on trauma, which really decimated my savings, but gave me a new lease on life and I feel like a lot of my traumas are processed now and I can live a real life. I spent most of my 20s remembering maybe a dozen total events from before I was in high school.
I’m currently looking to come back to work after 3 years off which is feeling extremely difficult. Places I apply obviously don’t want to know what I’ve been through, and so I have to fight the assumption that I didn’t have a job because of competence. Nearly went on long term disability but found it so onerous and restrictive I’d have rather died.
Just want to work again at this point so I can have a hope of not retiring poor - I never once expected to live this long.
I'm fine today but the decade following high school graduation was really rough for me. Stints of homelessness, substance abuse, depression, run-ins with law enforcement (some deserved, some not). I ended up enlisted in the military to escape my situation and it worked out for me. I'm in AAA games today but have had a good career in software engineering and we could probably retire today if we were willing to move to a LCOL area. But we aren't, because...
Today we have a rich and deep group of close friends, mostly formed around our children, and I pour myself into my family obligations. I'm trying to develop small communities where I live and it's starting to pan out. Again, it's primarily based around our children, but we've developed some lasting connections with a couple of other parents.
I'm currently building a 2D 16-bit platformer with my (twin) daughters, who are 5. I let them pick out some asset packs to use and, once I get this level editor finished, will have them help build levels. My aim is to get it running on a SteamDeck (will just copy the required files over) and let them play it on the TV via the dock. They've seen a bit of Mario and Zelda so far and are curious for more. I figured this way would be a bit more hands-on and they could get some sense of how the sausage gets made.
ACE Score: 0, therefore I apologise if this is too flippant since I don't suffer the depth of lows of clinical depression provides, although I've been through some unpleasant troughs in my time I'm sure I can't comprehend the potential psychological damage of most ACE scores above mine.
There's a particular line of The Desiderata[0] that says so much in so few words:
no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
It provides armour to me when the negative voices come. It reminds me that I am privileged to be alive at this point in time and help to remind me of the (good kind of) "holy shit" feeling I should have at that realisation.
Some holes are too deep for this to have an effect, but for the shallower ones, this has helped me escape them quicker.
You Have A Right To Be Here!
[0]: https://desiderata.com/desiderata.html
ACE 1, so I’m qualified to respond :)
An important thing for you and I to keep in mind is that we aren’t just talking about psychology.
ACEs cause (or exacerbate) depression, anxiety, and so on; they also cause (or exacerbate) cancer, heart disease, autoimmune disorders, and so on.
It’s obviously a lot of work to disentangle causation from secondary health impacts of mental illness, but to our shame there is more than enough data, and the work has been done. An appreciable fraction of the damage done by ACEs is physical and irreversible after adolescence.
I think this is important for us to remember because it’s easy for us to say, oh, they must need some extra support. And yeah, they do. But it’s too little, too late. They — the children — need us to stop the ACEs from happening.
Editing in a caveat I remembered elsewhere: of course the scores don’t cause these things, and of course the individual variance is huge. As a diagnostic criterion, ACE is useful as a screener and that’s about it. As a statistic, it’s revealed a pandemic.
I find this test interesting because I received an ACE score of 1, but I'm the oldest child in my household and I'm realizing that my siblings would probably score slightly higher than me... :-(
I moved out when I was around 20 before alcoholism and divorce destroyed the beautiful family dynamic that I grew up with.
This makes me want to try and understand the differences between myself and my siblings a bit more closely.
As an also low ACE person with high ACE loved ones, I super encourage this!
With the serious caveat that ACE score isn’t a great predictor for individuals: if your siblings have ACEs >=3, it’s entirely plausible that that trauma explains none, some, or all of the differences you’re referring to.
(If, like me, you grew up thinking socioeconomic status was the gold star predictor of cohort health, the past couple of decades of research here are pretty shocking!)
ACE score of 7. I kept my head down at home with abusive parents and did everything I could to leave that environment as soon as possible. Got admitted into a state school for the gifted where you lived on campus.
I've been diagnosed with bipolar and depression, but I've had what most people would probably consider a successful career, but every day been a struggle. I've always struggled with depression and feeling abandoned by my family. Pretty much have a life by myself with very few people involved. I don't talk with my family.
Decades of therapy and medication, and it honestly really doesn't help.
I have a score of 5. I was in my district's GT program [0] from 5th grade until graduation (I only mention this since you said "gifted" in the title and this is the most "official" proof that I have). I failed many classes in high school (algebra, chem, physics, English) mostly from lack of effort. I had a lot of trouble attending class during high school and dealt with depression.
I went to college a couple of states away and being in that new environment helped a lot. By my senior year I was doing much better -- still had issues and only had a 3.2 GPA but I never failed a class. I was able to get an internship at AWS and a full-time job there after graduation.
Now (at 27) I'm starting a new job at Pinterest tomorrow, doubling what I was making at my last job. I'm halfway through my masters in computer science. I don't think I have any giant accomplishments, but I'm definitely comfortable and conventionally successful. The biggest dissatisfaction I have are around relationships and fulfillment, though I am slowly making progress.
I don't have any major diagnosed issues, but my upbringing definitely continues to have a huge impact on me. Therapy has helped a lot.
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gifted_education
> "The biggest dissatisfaction I have are around relationships and fulfillment"
Just know that relationships at work can be fleeting. They could leave, you could leave. The best work friends you have, you might stay in touch. You'll both look back on your time together fondly. But lasting relationships aren't usually found at the workplace. (Though they _can_.)
And absolutely don't seek fulfillment from an employer. You're fulfilling them - their needs, wishes, and goals. They're fulfilling contractual obligations to you through your bank account just as you're fulfilling your work obligations to them through your efforts.
Fulfillment comes from acceptance of who you are, personal appreciation of what you're good at, and doing things for your own personal satisfaction - not because it's demanded of you by someone else. Honestly, just look how far you've come. That's an accomplishment in and of itself and is worthy of appreciation. Nobody will ever tell you when "you've arrived" (other than your GPS). It comes through personal realization that you're a grown adult now, you're charting your own course in life, you can go where you want and do what you want. You're where you are because of your own actions. If you ever find yourself truly loathing where you are, you can change it. Finding contentment with where you are in life (geographically, financially, etc) is up to you. Don't like it, you can change it. When you say "this is where I want to be" will you begin to find contentment.
A lot of comments and yours are heavily focusing on materialistic and financial status. While money or access to it is important to feel safe, it is not all there is to measure and compare.
What about friends and family? Partners? Children? Activities? Hobbies?
I scored a 2 it I noticed a lot of the questions focused on physical and alcoholic/drug abuse. I grew up in a culture/religion where none of these things existed but my I would classify my family and up bringing as dysfunctional and emotionally neglected.
Financially, I don't own a house nor can I afford one where I live. My job is secure and pays plenty to live comfortably renting. I don't think I will be able to retire in my country due to the cost of living.
I have no hobbies and very little friends. None Id call good friends. I have a partner and a dog.
Overall I'm happy with my life.
For me material and financial success represent dramatically increased safety. My goal was not to live in the same kind of gang infested place I grew up in. And it means I can afford the $50k a year I pay in health insurance for first-rate medical care.
50k a year is a gang extortion rate.
Very grateful I can afford it. Shitload of preexisting conditions in my family.
This is how gangs benefit the economy.
I am glad you scored a 2! I understand that such scores do not adequately capture the severity of someone’s circumstances, even if they say yes to one question.
I like to think I am working myself up to a partner and a dog, but opening to people is hard. It’s a work in progress.
My score was 7.
I have ADHD, autism, and dyslexia, but luckily a >140 iq on a good day. I’ve suffered from depression at times, was incarcerated as a juvenile and an adult. Had a physical and mentally abusive father. I was also a convicted felon at 15/16 and again at 18 years old. Was an alcoholic before being legally allowed to drink. The list goes on.
That said life is great, I’ve exceeded all expectations my parents, family and educators had for me(the bar was low). I own my home, happily married and raising a daughter. I work at a FANG company and have a pretty decent net worth. Have traveled to almost 40 countries and feel like I add value to the world on most days. I even serve on the board of a non profit.
I would never say these things made my life any easier by any stretch but I learned to cope and it made me a “strong” person, in that I have confidence I can overcome just about anything and I don’t really fear much of anything that life can throw at me.
The one thing that’s crippling at times, being through all that with a photographic memory. Closing my eyes to go to sleep at night is hard… every single day.
how much difficulty did the adult incarceration cause during your travels?
None actually, it’s cannabis related.
In fact the only time it’s been an issue was living in Texas, that state really embrasses discrimination against people with criminal records.
I don't fit all your criteria. My schools didn't have a gifted track, but I scored highly on many aptitude tests, took the college in high school classes, etc. I wasn't diagnosed with autism until I was an adult. ACE score is 0 though.
I definitely feel like you when it comes to success. I would be considered moderately successful (grad degree, decent professional job, married, kids, etc) but just sort of average (median household income for our area). It doesn't feel like "I made it" yet. It's been a real struggle to keep my job, or really want to keep it. I can't stand the politics and the unknown standards that I need to hit. It also sucks that they can't give me the reasonable accommodations I asked for such as additional coaching and they even talked about putting me on a PIP this year. With the job market the way it is, I'm finding it hard to switch jobs internally or externally. Of course with my autism, changing jobs is also difficult and risky even in a good market. Also as you mentioned, these internal struggles are consistently unknown to those around me. Even my wife doesn't understand how hard certain things affect me and instead sees me as being very smart and very successful even though the data I see only supports the moderate versions of that. I don't feel appreciated at work or at home and I don't get to do very many things that I enjoy.
I'm not satisfied with my life. I wish I had my diagnosis before getting married and I would have chosen a different path. Although I think I'm also greatful for not having the diagnosis before graduating as I probably would have had a "what's the point of trying" moment at some of the difficult points.
Beaten, neglected, molested, unsafe, etc. Many family & friends died from drugs, disease, poor life choices. Read books on success & business. Moved out at 16. Taught myself programming and business. Married a hot smart fellow nerd. Got good jobs, bought a business and monetized it. Had fantastic kids. Grateful every day to not be where I woke up. Retired to a farm recently.
Congratulations and thank you for breaking the cycle.
Thanks much. That was indeed my goal.
Congrats, I’m very similar to you I’m just at the monetised it phase now, one day I hope to retire to a farm too :)
Really more of a hobby farm. Was a dream of mine for 50 years before we bought it. Incredibly beautiful.
My best to you and yours. It can be done!
Thank you! Yes I think mine would be a hobby farm too, I want some cute lambs and a goat and somewhere to have some orange trees, that’s about it ^.^
Great life story. There's nothing that cannot be achieved if you set your sights on it (and persist).
One of my kids calls my childhood a horror story lol. Haven’t told them a lot either.
Sorry you had a rough start, but so glad you made it out. This is so awesome, glad to read it. Good luck to you all!
Thank you. Still have nightmares sometimes
I scored 3.
Took me a while to actually try hard things, because I was afraid of failure.
It wasn't until my mid thirties I started really pushing myself, embracing the fact that failure was a part of life, and changing my trajectory in a dramatic way.
~7 years later, I've got a nice house (2M), 1M in the bank, 2 kids, loving wife, and a handful of close friends I see often.
It was a tough road getting here, but life is good.
Amazing, thanks for sharing!
I don’t have anyone to talk to about any of this, so it’s helpful to see how others have done. It’s helpful to me as a guide of sorts.
I appreciate you sharing your experiences!
I can very much relate here. Ace score of 5. Took me until until my mid thirties as well to shake it and start to try, and I'm happy I did.
My score was 3, which isn't indicative of a overly rough life. But I was a gifted kid, reading at 3, straight A's all the way through University. Always had bad emotional problems though. Turned into a really bad porn/sex addiction. It's currently ruining my life and health and Im going to SMART meetings because SAA wasnt helpful for me. 35 and not very much to my name. Mental health issues have haunted me my whole life, and the same goes for my parents.
I've been diagnosed with a few things, but none very concretely other than dysthymia and general anxiety disorder. My mom has adhd, and her sisters have schizophrenia. Also my niece was diagnosed with autism. She thinks I have Adhd but I can't really tell whats what until my sex issues are through.
Hey, also ACE score of 6 (apparently).
It's been a struggle, and I really should have gotten diagnosed with ADHD decades ago rather than years ago. I regret those that I've hurt (especially those that I love) and the times I was my own barrier to success or happiness.
I'm lucky to have a wonderful partner and manager at this stage in my life, and I've put a bunch of work into myself. It's been slow, but more and more of it seems to be "sticky", and that's incredibly encouraging.
Overall, satisfied with my life, especially in context of the world at large or relative to those with a similar background (makes me realize in some ways I'm pretty darn lucky after all).
Still, I feel the need to earn it. I don't feel like I deserve the nice things I do have, and I have a lot of anxiety of it going away. Therapy is currently helping me guide that and allow me to focus on the parts I can control while giving me the serenity to accept that there are things inherently uncontrollable, or even influencable.
Only thing I'd have to say is: never give up trying to get better. You're stuck with yourself for your entire life, one way or another. You owe it to your future, present, and past self to get better, and you owe it to those rays of sunshine that are the people you love or have given kindness, also past present, and future. You can't change the past, so don't dwell on it. Just try to do what you reasonably can. You've survived this long, which shows you're capable of endurance and survival at minimum. Have faith you can keep that, and use that as a rock to build a better life and a better (at least, local) world upon.
7
I’d say the biggest struggle hasn’t been financial independence, overcoming a rough childhood, or getting out of rural hell - it’s been dating. That was set in stone by my genetics being such trash. I’m 34 and only ever had one partner who would only stay with me on the condition that I paid for everything and would receive no emotional support.
By most measures, I am far more successful than most people you’d meet but I consider myself one of the least successful people because all I’ve ever wanted is for someone to love me and to build a loving family. Life is cruel.
I am sorry you’re going through that. I am not in a rural place, but I feel isolated all the same because I mask everything. I feel that if I trust someone enough, I’ll open up to them. I am working up to it.
Be wary of advice which says you need to be good looking to expect reasonable behavior from a partner. I’ve been told I am attractive, but it can sometimes bring the wrong kind of attention that doesn’t really provide emotional support and personal wellbeing.
Looking good can be its own reward, but it’s not a requirement for finding a close relationship, I think.
Take care.
Are you in your top fitness condition? Most of the times, looking good means being in your top health condition, right body weight and % bodyfat below 13% (for men).
Yes. I’m facially ugly.
Get plastic surgery if your desire to find a partner is this great.
I’ve already had it and am planning more. It’s not sufficient. Some of us are born with faces that western doctors cannot figure out how to fix.
I am quite taken back (and a little choked up tbh) by the high numbers that people are reporting in the comments. I can't even imagine what that means.
Seriously wishing you best to all of you.
8, and one thing it means is we here are selected for having made it far enough back to talk idly about it on a Sunday evening on HN. Spare a thought for those who haven't and didn't, too. Your heart does you credit here; they need it more than we.
Hard is relative. I scored a 3. My childhood would better be described as one of neglect rather than one of direct abuse. I don’t feel accomplished. I feel like I’ve been moving from one lucky break to another. But at the same time I’m able to see what I can contribute to roles I have versus my peers and have to conclude my calibration for what is successful or accomplished is very biased. It’s difficult to properly judge yourself when we have plain examples of the top 0.1% all over the internet. This sets up incredibly unrealistic expectations. If you’re able to iterate without constant guidance and able to pivot when you run into firm roadblocks you’re ahead of 90% of your peers. I’m constantly dealing with the dissonance of trying to reconcile that I’m nothing special with me being the only one capable of pushing certain projects forward.
It feels like so many people hit the first stumbling block and throw up their hands stating they don’t know how to do it. That’s where things finally get interesting for me. It doesn’t work. How can I make it work? What have I tried and what other people have solved a similar problem? 95% of the time I just find what someone before me did, copy it and move on. Why is that so difficult for many of my peers? A good portion of my career could be summed up as copying and pasting things I’ve found on Google. It objectively works. Why are others struggling?
I’ll never be a Carmack or an Asahi or any other super hacker that frequently drops incredible work in novel areas that extremely few other individuals could ever deliver. But I can follow their work. Learn from them. Apply their solutions to problems in other domains and iterate on it. But this all feels easy and natural to me so I have trouble understanding why my peers struggle with it so much.
ACE 5, I'm mid 30s now, standard bad stuff, parents died years ago.
I stay somewhat mentaly healthy by being relentlessly busy. I don't give much weight to accomplishment, fear of being in a situation of poverty or vulnerability again drives me. I have some underlying mental issues, busyness helps keep them at bay and the sadness and pain has faded over time. At low points I try and remember it comes in waves.
I have a wonderful wife and young child, they are my satisfaction and I feel lucky every day. I don't expect to live long past 60 due to medical and historic reasons, so I intend to stay busy for the next ~25 years, do my best by them and try and leave a net positive on the world.
Didn't know this existed, thank you for posting, reading these has been an eye opener.
ACE of 4, gifted child who literally got the passion for education beaten out of them. I feel like my childhood, or dealings with my parents might have actually been pretty bad...but better than the present day. I was bullied as a kid, and never really supported during it, which made me incredibly angry and aggressive and I walked around for maybe the first 25 years of my life actively thinking I would get drawn into fights at any time. Doesn't help when your parents will also beat your ass for perceived disrespect, bad grades or public failings.
My parents also are just malicious, non-cooperative, myopic people, and my dad is an alcoholic who basically went my entire life never getting checked until my mother walked out on him a few months ago, as a result of him doing a handful of things so repulsive my younger sister (the emotionally intelligent one of the family) cut him off and my mother realized that she didn't actually have to spend the rest of her life tethered to this person. My mom isn't great, but good for her. In the interim my dad has become even more of an alcoholic and he sleeps for 15 hours a day, only getting up to eat, pee and pretend he's not an alcoholic while he teaches classes on Zoom.
I've had a rough go the last few years with employment/career, but things might turn around for me in as little as a few hours. It's a combination of having to deal with poor boundary management in some situations, and bad situations outright. I'm not where I'd like to be in life, but I'm not old--just old enough to consider that I won't be here forever. But every day I become more aware of how my childhood set the stage for my life.
I don't consider adult life to be hard, when things are working well -- it's just that they often don't. I'm okay with life, but only because I have the tools to make it what I want. The day to day kind of sucks.
Ace score of 8. Outside of medical things outside of my control, relatively ok I guess. I have responses to things and a perspective on life shared by almost nobody I meet, which can make things a bit harder, more so it leaves me feeling out of place because I know the world and the individuals in it in a very different way that most never will.
I was surrounded significantly by organised crime growing up, and big parts of it, and the people involved were normalised to me. Sometimes I will speak of things I encountered or endured growing up, and people become visibily uncomfortable. I often forget that it's very confronting for others, because for me, it was so normalised, it's just a part of who I am, even today.
For instance recently a group I was in asked us to recount some experiences we had at a certain time and place, and they specifically asked about crime.
Turns out that didnt mean "tell us about how you had your head ripped open in multiple places with a steering lock and were left for dead on the street" because that's a story normies can't really gel with. Recounting such stories can cause people to look at you in a very different way following it.
I have a pretty modest ACE score of 2, the stories here are something else.
I am curious is having both parents with mental health challenges the common scenario? My father was depressive alcoholic who never worked in my lifetime, and as an adult I think that was more impactful than I realized as a child. My mom just had a pretty severe eating disorder but was functional adult.
I turned out fine, maybe higher anxiety than most and way way too risk adverse in every facet of life, but have a happy family and steady work and such.
My sister though has had a lifetime of depression and eating disorders, and even though has advanced degrees is living on disability since her 30s. I wonder if she had a higher ACE score, perhaps with non family members or something.
Both of us were “gifted” and valedictorian of our small school, so up to college had very similar paths.
4 here. Been struggling with depression since 15, but got it under control since ~25 thanks to antidepressants, a healthier environment and a loving spouse whom I talk to a lot. I started drinking at 15 and had varying degrees of alcohol problems until my 20s. Never finished college - ended up with a lot of student debt and no degree. I come from a small city in Ecuador, a country which has gone through a lot of shit since I can remember: terrible education levels, insecurity, violence, political instability, etc. Parents got divorced during Ecuador's 2000 financial implosion. Dad went bankrupt, sank into deep depression and never fully recovered.
Luckily for me I'm good at one thing: coding. Eventually got out of town and found a job as a software consultant in Quito. Now I live in Stockholm Sweden. Got visa sponsored by a tech company at the pinnacle of the 2019-2020 tech hiring craze. Here I can say I'm slightly above average in terms of financial and career success, but I have it much, much better than my peers back home.
I'm kind of a loner (Sweden doesn't help tbh), I have low tolerance for stuff that triggers me and I tend to go back to bridge-burning mode from time to time, but my wife helps me stay on track and I have developed better coping mechanisms year after year :). My life is honestly wonderful and better than I could have ever hoped for. My home country is as violent as ever and I'm always worried that something's gonna happen to my family back there, but that's pretty much the only worry I have in my life now.
This exercise was great!
If you think you know who I am, no you don't. I'm leaving major details out.
Principal Engineer at one of whatever we're calling the tech companies with ten figure market caps. A couple nice exits from previous jobs. Low seven figure net worth. Married. Lots of friends. In my late 30s to mid 40s.
You'd probably recognize some of my projects.
I was in a gifted and talented program for a while as a kid. Tested at 99.9th percentile.
ADHD, ASD, treatment resistant depression. ACE score of 5, but I feel that misses a lot of very specific trauma.
One of my previous partners abused me. That was many years ago, but I still have severe anxiety, constantly worried someone will scream at me for things I had no control over.
I'm so depressed I have trouble taking care of myself and regularly think about killing myself. In therapy for years, not sure if it's helping.
I genuinely have no idea how I hold myself together at work, it's like I'm a different person there.
How much more could I have been, had things been a little different?
Hey friend - check out dissociation and that realm. It’s one of the things that often comes out of trauma, and allows us the superpower to be who we need to be to survive and even thrive, but can carry big deficits in self image and ability to handle our emotions.
Have you tried TMS (the magnet thing?).
It worked well for my friend that had ideation.
ACE 4, raised by my grandmother and alcoholic drug addict mother in the projects. I made it out only because my aunt gave me a handmedown PC when I was 13, I lucked out into a magnet high school, and was granted admission with full financial aid into MIT (and was somehow able to graduate in 4 years). Grateful for it every day.
After I birthed my first kid in my early 30s at the start of the pandemic, my struggles with depression and anxiety seemingly vanished.
I've always been very risk averse, so I fear I'll never be able to start a startup or something like that. It's always sounded fun. Now that I'm very stable and well, and ok financially (the house cost way more than I'd like)... it still feels too risky for me to leave my normal job. Maybe I'll try in my 40s...
ACE score of 7. I am ridiculously happy. I have a wife who loves me, and two (little) kids who want to be around me. A successful and fulfilling career that lets me provide for (and even spoil, sometimes) my family. Multiple side-projects/hobbies/'hustles' that I can pick up or put down at will. Life is really, fantastically, pronoia-inducingly, good. It wasn't always this way, and I owe a LOT to great teachers in my formative years (HS and some college) who encouraged me to get the hell out of the house, city, and state I grew up in, and become my own man far far away from the place and family of my birth.
I'd been on the 'gifted' track since pre-K (I was reading books without pictures by 3, for example, and had read The Hobbit in Kindergarten). I made it out (barely) of one of the worst public middle/highschool systems in the country, and got a 70%+ 4 year scholarship into one of the best. My grandparents (specifically my maternal grandmother, may she RIP) busted all kinds of ass to make up the difference. "Family drama" almost made it to where I couldn't get transport to out-of-state college at the very last minute, and my paternal grandfather (may HE RIP!) showed up out of the blue, helped me throw my things in his truck, and drove me 12 hours one-way so I could attend college (no I did not finish, and dropped out after 4 years; long story)
The fear, doubt, and insecurity of my teens led to quite a bit of learning and growing in my early/mid 20s, and it just got better from there. "Getting the hell out" was the best advice I had gotten, and I am so glad I was able to take it.
My biggest concern these days is how do I grow beyond my damaged upbringing and not just be a "neutral" force in my family's life, but a "good" one. I'd like to be around for any grandkids (shucks, maybe even GREAT grandkids if the health and longevity sciences keep doing their respective things), and a positive presence in their lives too.
I got 8. My life is pretty great. I get enjoy every day look at the world and experience things I'd never thought I would be able to. I truly had no idea I'd live this long, and whether good or bad I get to experience a lot of first at my age in wonder people my age have done before. I hadnt even ever gone vacation until I was 23 and never been oversea long term until I was 31. I've gotten to go camping, buy a car, buy a home, and see the world at a lot older age so I feel like I am still in awe of those things.
ACE = 4 here, 30 years old for reference. Pretty satisfied!
My net worth is currently less than a tenth of yours, however, because to get here I took the drastic step of moving to Europe and going no contact with my immediate family for a couple of years.
I chose to focus on getting married and starting a wonderful family first, with the woman of my dreams there, before I started really stepping on the career gas pedal, and I think that was absolutely the right choice for me at the time.
I have an ACE score of 4 and have been marked as gifted at various stages of my life, elementary, high school, college, and other somewhat impressive things during my 30+ year life.
The hardest part about being "gifted" and having a difficult childhood is being able to compete/achieve at high levels consistently. For brief moments I can be amazing at art, relationships, work, social situations, etc. But it all comes crashing down once I get too taxed or triggered. I simply don't have the energy or ability to be functional at the gifted (and even less) level for long periods of time. Even worse the recovery time from being drained is way longer than my close friends who grew up in more stable environments.
On paper things look pretty good for me. But keeping everything in order takes a lot out of me and I'm struggling to find the strength to do more and to live up to my "potential".
Scored 8. Doing fine in terms of profession and money, quite a bit more than fine. I’ve made peace with never having much of a social circle or children or the normal interpersonal trappings of a life. I strongly hate and fear people, and that’s never going away.
I went through a period in my 20s when I was very interested in talking about it and doing therapy and getting diagnoses. Did the whole circuit of the books and techniques and medications that usually get talked about. Now I’m not interested in talking about it and don’t ID as having any condition.
I’m quite happy and satisfied with my life as a whole. There are many other ways to fill the day. Probably once a week or so I’ll wake up, and as the fog of unconsciousness clears enough for me to remember what and where and how I am, it makes me smile.
Thanks to all for sharing their experiences. To me, this thread has been like sharing battle scars. I am not trying to make light of people who have actual battle scars, my respect to them too.
ACE score 5 My abusive parent luckily died of cancer almost 30 years ago.
Me and my siblings turned our lives around in the first few years after that.
From being fast on way to a ditch, mentally, financially and physically I found the strenth to leave my drug addicted and alcoholic partner. I learned to admit amd recognize my own toxic behaviors and and took many years on my own to learn to set healthy boundaries and learn to live a healthy life. And to be a healthy parent.
Eventually finished University as a single parent with a full time job and I work with what I love today.
Own a house, a dog and have a good economy. No means financially rich, but in a long term happy relationship and in the best physical shape of my life.
ACE 6. I did good career wise, failure was just not an option to me so I worked hard. At school I was put into accelerated classes for gifted kids. But I feel like I could have done a lot better with more support at home. I see that people get points for diversity etc. in college or hiring, but there is no such support for people who suffer silently, and even if there was I have too much pride to let others know just for some brownie points. Life was particularly hard before I found employment, roughly from the age of 18 to 26. That was also the period when my mental health challenges were more difficult and I had not yet learned how to cope. I have not yet gotten any ‘treatment’ for mental health issues. I got some money after making some fortunate investment decisions that allowed me to climb out of poverty, it might be trivial sum for most people out there but it was a lot to me. Lately I get feelings of being an orphan, just out there on my own and not having my own people to share things with or support in life.
My wife is startled sometimes when I react as I do, she doesn’t understand where it comes from. I have forgetfulness and emotional regulation issues. But she is a nice person and helps me out.
I worry about money and the future all the time.
I would like to thank my mom and God for everything, and Jensen Huang. Will delete this later.
Sorry for poor punctuation and english.
Got a 3, product of the gifted ed system, with a few other challenges that aren’t counted in ACE, plus a healthy dash of what could be called self-sabotage as I began to make my adult way.
Now, decades later, I’m doing fine, better than fine actually, but relative my fears I am doing unbelievably fantastically. Of course, relative to the sense of limitless potential that the gifted ed system tends to implant, I should have invented cold fusion by now.
I long ago decided that the past was interesting but a terrible place to live. I consciously try hard to look forward and think about what I can do and not about what could have been or what other shadows might be lurking. That’s not advice, it’s just what I’ve done.
My biggest regret is not staying with my first job out of college. I loved it, and had I stayed my options at the age of 26 would be worth over $10m now. I left that job for a woman. I feel so stupid about it. I am good at math and bad at life. I should have stayed with that job. I was recruited out of university by men like me, who looked out for us.
I have found my peace, but large company nerd divisions are great for brilliant wierdo's.
Are gifted children just like children who have early growth spurts? They end up average but for a while they were towering above their peers.
Score is 5 but factor in racism which is not accounted for in the test.
I decided age 6 I wanted to be Captain Picard or maybe phrased better: I decided to replace the absent positive male role model with idealised humanist diplomat/scientist.
It worked out very well for me. My net worth is less than it could be because I decided to prioritise happiness over wealth, but I habe a great live.
What saddens me is that, kids today do not even get stories that look positively in the future. Sometimes it feels all modern sci-fi is dystopian.
ACE 5, as a child I was never tested for giftedness. From first grade till I took my SAT equivalent I never really studied, I just got things from class and I never did any homework. When I got to college (STEM) I had to repeat a couple of years because applying the same method as high school did not work - made me feel inferior.
When I started working I felt liberated, felt like life was different and because of that I had some success, but because I never really applied myself in school I lacked the exercise to do that and wherever I worked I was always the worst of the best. In my 40s now and I recently realized what it means to study, to put effort into something and this happened because I am now the worst of the worst - COVID took my depression to a new low, I'm just starting to go up again.
I have a child from a previous marriage that I don't know how to relate to, I keep trying to bond by I end up hurting them more - that's my biggest pain point. I am alone now, sometimes lonely, sometimes happy to be alone, but ideally I would like a partner.
ACE of 7, labelled as "gifted" as some point but was somehow talked out of pursuing accelerated education programs by a parent, grew increasingly disenchanted with the education system but managed to get my shit together enough to make it into a top-tier university program until family issues re-emerged and I ended up dropping out.
Still made it out OK as a homeowner with no student debt, but between the first 20-odd years of my life spent limping along and trying to pick up the pieces from my "adverse childhood" and another 4 or so odd years of pandemic lockdown, it feels like much of my early life was taken from me against my will.
I am satisfied with my achievements in spite of my tumultuous upbringing. That being said there will always be an undercurrent of "wasted potential" or "what if" I had the fortune of more fortuitous life circumstances.
As a sidebar I also am absolutely apoplectic with the blatantly sexist assumption in one of the ACE questions that it is the father who physically abuses the mother or threatens them with a weapon, but given that this is NPR I am not surprised.
In a logical world, affirmitive action efforts would be redirected to people with ACE score >= 4, regardless of ethnicity or race.
ACE 2. labelled gifted as a young kid. have always struggled with people pleasing, and I've had a hard time finding my own center and figuring out who I am. I just focused a lot on external achievement in my youth.
I have undergone some rough trauma but most of the worst of it happened when I was an adult, so I feel fortunate and quite sad when reading some of the responses here.
there's a lot of general disdain about 'former gifted kids' but I do think we often feel pretty 'different' from everyone else growing up, and that alone can be quite isolating.
I manage, I do pretty good work I guess, but I'm definitely not as successful as I thought I would be. home/family life has always been hard. optimistic about the future.
hugs to everyone here for making it this far, hang in there.
ACE 4, late diagnosed with ADHD at 30 years old (M33).
Had a whole lot of anger about my parents and the world crammed up in me until the diagnosis.
Almost every move until then has been trying to peel back the invisible onion layers of protection I built up as a child and teenager (masking, cynicism, not asking for help or showing emotions).
Being blind to the coping mechanisms which you built up subconsciously but which don't serve you is what annoys me the most about this overall condition.
But it also gives me a sense of agency.
Currently reading "Hope for Cynics: The Surprising Science of Human Goodness", which I highly recommend.
So overall, I'm not satisfied with my career life as I feel many opportunities were taken away from me through no fault of my own.
I'm very satisfied with my personal life as I have of last year found a woman who I have been able to build a wonderful relationship with.
In all of this mess, I am extremely grateful for ADHD meds every day.
Don't often comment here but I just wanted to say that I feel you. ADHD was crippling for me my whole life and you really do develop a whole host of weird little layers of protection, either against yourself or against how you expect others to treat you. I'm 36 and got prescribed meds last year and it was a profound experience being able to cast off all the rituals and just... function. It is certainly frustrating to consider what one could have accomplished with this ability at, say, the age of 18 instead... but that way lies madness. At least we can build our future.
ACE of 8, IQ 170+, did absurdly well at High School. Am diagnosed ASD (at 50 years old) , have a psych friend say I'm ADHD but untestable.
I've had incredible highs (University Medal for example) in between various crises. My life is pretty shit, and I'll die alone. It took me a very very long time to learn to have nothing to do with family.
You're doing better than I am at this time.
What makes you think you will die alone? I know many that have said that and have had late life turn around, but a big part of it is just being ok with yourself. The good, the bad, everything in between. The marbled reality that is you. To be like the trees that curve and twist and bend, flourish in one spot but drop leaves and branches in another.
It is not easy but it can be done. While the wake of the past can be turbulent, it is just that in the past. You can be aware of it, moved by it but remember you are the boat now that makes the wake. Don't deny the past, merely accept it as something that has happened, it does not need to dominate the time that you have.
Also seeing a therapist/counseling can be very helpful in this. Don't try to do this alone even if it can be difficult to bring yourself to do it! The anxiety of what it is like is far stronger than the actual event.
Not gifted in anyway. But check my profile and follow the link, to see if what I have written catches your attention.
(p.s: I won't bother with my ACE score - seems like an indulgence in self pity )
I scored 6, I turned my life "around" in some sense and pursued software engineering at 22 years old, after just neglecting my own wellbeing for at the time feeling like ages. Now at 28 I'm a senior engineer in a international corporation, it's not a tech company, but still something that i can feel good about. relationships and hobbies are good, but the pressure from performing on all fronts is some times so much that i fall into dysfunction and despair. but i feel like im building better coping mechanisms all the time when paying attention
You sound awesome, good for you! Coping mechanisms can get tricky if they’re around food, drinks or drugs. I try to be mindful about these as well.
ACE score of 0. Based on the questions, I had a gifted upbringing. I need to do more with my life considering.
I don’t think my history is important but I grew up in a home of 5 children (I’m the oldest), single (divorced) mother with far under the poverty line for a single person income.
I don’t know this test is very good, but my score was 7
My situation was not great, but I had many neighbors and friends in school with far worse situations.
I think, and have come to believe that, a difficult upbringing has many benefits in later life .
1. You know right from wrong, you’ve seen wrong 2. Empathy comes easier to you 3. You know exactly what you don’t want your life to look like 4. You value opportunity 5. You aren’t scared of people who have less wealth than you - further, you can figure out, quickly, who is poor but ambitious to improve their life, or poor and doesn’t care about anything. 6. Drugs are pure EVIL
All of my siblings have excellent careers now and excellent family lives, we all have wonderful spouses and there are 17 grandchildren with 1 more on the way!
I had over 1 million in net worth at 35. This continues to improve but doesn’t matter to me anymore, that was my milestone.
I don’t do scams, I don’t rip people off, I don’t do work or take money to help others accomplish dishonest goals. I am comfortable working alone or in groups. In groups took a lot of work.
Please, believe in the power of positive thinking. This was key for me.
ACE 0, happy childhood, very problematic puberty and adolescence. I was bullied.
Much later in life I discovered I was what is called a Sigma male and everything made sense.
I created my own company but was poor for a while(but very happy to do what I wanted). People probably felt sorry for me but I did not care about their opinions.
Very happy now. Not poor anymore.
7, basically was cut of from the last family member last year I had hopes in for over a decade after helping her to get back up, that cost me dearly in my career and private social life.
I pulled myself back up these year, don't have any holes in my CV and still have a job that pays enough so that I can put stuff aside. Which I'm taking as a win.
I do have some friends left that I can trust, which I take as a win.
Currently don't have a partner, but at least I not only recovered from the last break up, but I also got something slowly brewing that could become something or atleast another good friend. Taking that as a win.
Middle aged and most health problems are manageable or in progress about getting better. Taking this as a neutral.
Could have been in a much better space in life if specific people wouldn't have maliciously against me and I wouldn't have taken the risk on the one member I mentioned already. But I also could easily be, and see others, even some of my friends, in worse places.
So I think, I did quite alright.
ACE 5. I have been moderately successful in life and work, more so in the last few years, after I was treated for ADHD. Still have psychological issues to work through.
For me, the successes came from a combination of luck, and learning to make lemonade from the lemons life gives you. I was lucky to meet my wife in college, and even more lucky that she saw something in me, the confused and abandoned kid that I was. She filled in my weaknesses with her strengths, and I like to think that I had a similar effect on her.
I was the black sheep of the family, which drew me to entrepreneurism at an early age and made me not scared of taking risks. Either that or it was the toxoplasma. That's given me some moderate success in work and a comfortable life, but I don't feel fulfilled.
I turned out to be a total failure. I am to finish my uni next semester, but I was unable to find any sort of internship so I will have issues graduating. I am very lazy person. I don't have any sort of worth and I'm a disappointment to my parents.
ACE 2: I dealt with depression and anxiety since early adolescence, with a lot of drugs and petty delinquency. Went to college for STEM and quickly became obsessed with a life in academia. Completed a PhD at a top 10 school, then a postdoc in an Ivy League university working under a NASA contract. Now I'm a tenure track professor at an R1 university.
Despite never fully feeling socially connected and depression/anxiety ridding shotgun the whole time, I'm very satisfied with how things turned out. Though, I think that feeling has less to do with my career and more to do with my partner; without them I dont think I'd be around to write this.
Scored a 6 or a 7, depending on the answer to one question that I'm not sure of. I think more likely 7 than 6.
This pretty obviously impacted my happiness when I lived with an abusive parent and I have some physical issues that could possibly be related to starving so much as a kid and some others that fall out of not getting basic dental care, but I don't think it's obvious that my background is a dominant factor in how happy or satisfied I am. I find it plausible that my resilience in certain situations is lower than it otherwise would be due to my background, but it's not clear that it's even lower than average in those situations. And, overall, I was probably happier and more satisfied with my life than most people starting a couple years after moving out on my own until a few years ago.
Maybe the version of me that wasn't abused so much as a kid would've been even happier or maybe that version would still have above average life satisfaction today, but maybe not.
ACE score of 1, my parents were pretty great.
But if this test were applied to other kids, it would be off the charts. Abused and neglected in every way imaginable by my peers, growing up.
It's always annoyed me that if your abusers weren't your caregivers, your trauma is never taken seriously by the mental health community.
But it is what it is. I'm doing very well financially and professionally, I have a wife and kids, I am strong, fit, and healthy. But I have no friends, and it's impossible to relate with other people. Perpetually lonely, always the outcast, even decades after adolescence.
ACE of 8 here - I don't know how to qualify "gifted" but I believe I was and am a few std deviations away from median on most IQ tests I've had to take (therapists always insist I take one).
I don't feel the need to get into my childhood but there was instances of severe abuse/neglect, and extreme hoarding. Some light sexual stuff but it's all fuzzy. Our home and upbringing was a lot like that Turpin [0] family where they were basically forbidden outside contact despite maintaining normal appearances to the outside world. If that was a 10/10, mine was about a 7. I've had symptoms of PTSD since a very early age and subsequent traumatic events in adulthood.
My teens/early 20's were... difficult. I was independent by 17 and mostly was too busy trying to survive than to seriously attempt college. By my mid 20's I was able to enroll in community college and then transfer to a prestigious CS program and graduated with honors. I naively thought this would be the "end" of my problems - a lot of the trauma drove me to push through extraordinarily difficult circumstances during my time at school and trying to juggle several jobs.
In the decade since though, while I do have much more money and resources to get help than I used to, I feel I have declined. I've had persistent depression and anxiety for so long it's to the point I have difficulty recognizing it without the help of a therapist, who I see 2x a week. Found out I am very high functioning on the spectrum, and people often have difficulty understanding where I am coming from in terms of life experiences and I have difficulty relaying to them why I am the way that I am, so I often present a facade, which is isolating and lonely. My siblings fared a little better than I did and found family with their significant others that I for whatever reason did not. I suspect without being a gifted child I would have died a long time ago.
So all in all, not great, but probably much better than my peers in similar situations did.
[0] - https://abcnews.go.com/US/turpin-daughter-escape-happened-di....
Suicidal living under a creaking branch during a cyclone - it missed by a metre.
I’ve never heard of ACE but I just scored a 7. Once upon a time I got diagnosed on the spectrum, as well as PTSD due to various traumas.
I turned out pretty well: successful career, married a really long time, and raised 3 kids without neglecting or abusing them. I still feel like an alien among people, but I’m socially functional, great confidence, can handle myself in any sense, etc.
I never mention my diagnoses to others but I keep them secret and do use them as valuable tools on how to approach my own problems and challenges. I never consider myself a victim — that’s like a sacred sin to me.
I’m very grateful for all the good and all the bad I’ve experienced. It built me into a flawed person that I’m very proud of.
ACE 7, recently got my PhD in ML and am doing reasonably well, at least from an 'objective' lens (I have a well paying job and bought my first condo recently). My mind is still chaotic as ever (I have a mix of OCD / Tourettes / PTS) and it's still often hard for me to concentrate without overthinking some portion of my life or something completely unrelated to the task at hand.
If I can plug a Youtuber who really 'gets it' (mental health and depression), it's Dr Scott Eilers. Everything else is just clichéd garbage.
(Disclaimer: I am not 'gifted' but did very academically well during high school and uni)
ACE of 3 after I started living with my grandparents. ACE of 8 if you include the first 2 years of my life.
I am doing mediocre:
Career: bad
Love life: fantastic
The rest: hardcore self-dev mode
I am an insomniac and it’s fucking up my life. The ability to hold down a job because of it is really hard, unless I do intellectually easy work, which programming isn’t for me.
I also had a horrible career start. I had top marks at my university but I didn’t know anything about hiring cycles. So I just chilled for a year and then had a rough time finding a job, took a job I didn’t want for the sake of it and then had a few patches of jobs that I didn’t feel fully okay with, except for my last job but then tech layoffs happened and interviewing became hard.
Some people say I should become a dating coach as opposed to a dev but I have no idea on how to do the marketing and sales for that. I currently feel tech is more sustainable.
It’s funny:
I taught people in 3 month coding bootcamps when I still was a CS student and they are more senior than me.
My friend that studied business doing no programming on the side is nowadays more senior than me.
I paid a career coach $5000 which is a lot on a yearly salary of $35000 (if I have a job), but it’s not helping. It’s probably in part because I am Dutch and he is better in the US market.
I feel it’s a cruel joke. I did all the “moves” to not launch a career at all.
I could use some help but I don’t exactly know what kind of help as my blind spots career-wise are big (otherwise I wouldn’t have overindexed on uni, 2 bachelors and 2 masters). It doesn’t help that I am immigrating to the US at some point (marriage) for my current job search in NL.
I am currently also in therapy in the diagnostic stage. I probably will be diagnosed as autistic (at 33+ of age) but the jury is still out, could also be adhd or both. I sought help for my insomnia.
I currently meditate 2 hours per day since 2 weeks ago. I don’t think I will ever stop that again. I can feel that it helps a lot, especially with executive functioning (prefrontal cortex - doing your tasks) and somewhat for sleep too.
Best careers I know in person did the classmates through the connections of their (mostly wealthy) parents or partners. There is no silver bullet here. Coming from poverty means grinding twice hard as others and being open for weird opportunities.
Can I ask what apps you use to meditate? I am trying some app called Balance, but it isn't helping me
ACE 7 here.
I'm doing OK in life. It took a long time for me to stop running away from things because I didn't trust anyone for a long time. I'm still cynical and paranoid, but I have a steady government job, a solid early retirement plan, and a supportive wife that loves me.
People are surprised I didn't amount to more in life, but I live my life 100% on my terms, and that's what's important to me.
Not rich, not poor, but I enjoy life in general.
ACE 7. I feel good about some parts of my life, but mostly I hate it. I miss human connection deeply, but I don't see any path to having it in my life after my relationship of a year ended. I feel disconnected from my upbringing and like I don't know how to function as a white collar worker, and I constantly feel like I don't deserve what I have now as an engineer. I love my cat and my family though, and doing computer graphics for a living is a dream come true in a lot of ways.
I'm a 7 but I grew up in the 80s lol. Diagnosed HFA as a child multiple times, high-IQ, was in gifted / IB programs
Honestly most of the abuse I suffered happened at school, as the autistic "gay" kid I was constantly bullied and there was no interest on the part of school staff to do anything about it.
When I was 16 I fell into a nicer crowd but they drank and partied a lot and I ended up dropping out in grade 12. Got work as a computer technician, did that for a decade or so, moved on to other stuff.
The autism has been a real struggle that has become more challenging with age, and the memories of abuse do haunt me.
The larger the expectations, the harder it is for some to appreciate progress, and easier it is to not try at all.
A self-destructive defeatist nihilistic attitude is easy to cultivate, especially among the bastards of the gifted.
I generally agree. However, times have changed. The middle class standards that many of us grew up with and set for ourselves are increasingly difficult to achieve. The expectations were not particularly high and they seemed reasonable at the time they were set.
Unregulated/ crony capitalism is a race to the bottom - whether that bottom be wage, time, morale or social discontentment.
Off-topic, but did anyone attend Johns Hopkins CTY camp as a kid? I did it for 9 straight summers, and while the name is a bit pretentious, it was one of the best experiences I had. I am curious if anyone is an alum, since the overlap of CTY and HN seems pretty unique atm.
https://cty.jhu.edu/
Ace of 9.
Adulthood ADHD diagnosis. Came from a dirt poor abusive background. Declared gifted, but dropped out of school.
Now an engineering manager / lead developer making over £250k a year.
Rough lad done good. Could've done better.
Also, go get counselling or therapy with a professional (none of this life coach quackery). It made me a better human.
Scored 9. Nearly everything except for 'priestly' abuse.
Feelings are a bit too complicated, I think. Jury is out. Perhaps for good.
Professionally I'm great but that matters very little.
Those affected by this post might appreciate this book: "The Drama of the Gifted Child: The Search for the True Self" (https://www.amazon.ca/Drama-Gifted-Child-Search-Third/dp/046...)
My ACE is 0 (lucky me, my solidarity goes to all of you). Although childhood problems are a grave impediment for life, do you think you come out stronger / more brave than people with no problem?
For example I turned out a workaholic because I couldn’t find how to have success in my affective life. I’m 40, fit, correctly rich, but with a deep unsatisfaction about romantic life. Should I just be brave about it and satisfy myself with being single, or would a brave person deal about it?
The research shows that people come out less strong. Bravery is different, I think that's highly individual. Some people who seek out extreme thrills and adrenaline do so because their brain and nervous system are hardwired for dangerous environments, and it's the only way they can feel normal.
You have to work to find silver linings, opportunity in chaos and vice versa.
To your own issue, bravery would be taking action to address your dissatisfaction. That could mean therapy, or putting yourself out there, but in any case takes the very real bravery of developing self-awareness and honesty so you can identify what you need to do.
"I look accomplished to people, but I don’t feel accomplished."
You should be proud of yourself. I have accomplished nothing in life and I had a STEM PhD. I think I am even bad in Science.
This book comes to mind. I have not read it yet: https://www.amazon.com/Drama-Gifted-Child-Search-Revised/dp/...
ACE score of 6.
I'm in my mid twenties. Got a decent SWE job, net worth around 0$ but I just got rid of most of my debts which is nice.
Extremely anxious all the time and depressed, still traumatized by a lot of stuff, zero social life at the moment, never managed to maintain any long term relationships(both in terms of friends and partners), not great physical health but it's getting better.
I'm not completely unsatisfied with my life, given the circumstances it was much more likely to be a lot worse. But it definitely could be a lot better.
I think you’re doing so, so well. I have reservations about making close relationships too because of my past, so it’s a common pattern amongst people with traumatic experiences. I plan to try out a hobby group but time hasn’t been so flexible.
I’ve seen other people fall into the trap of thinking that their body is a meatbag for their brain. I’ve personally found that exercise helps me so much with both reducing depressive symptoms and maintaining focus.
Hope you find whatever it is which you think will make your life better, take care!
ACE 6, no need to delve into the details beyond physical and emotional abuse and neglect.
I’m happy with where my life is now. Spent many years struggling with severe anxiety and depression.
Therapy is key. If you have a high ACE score, see a therapist. It took me years of therapy to even begin to overcome some of this.
I’m very grateful for the life I have now, especially my spouse and kids. I have the opportunity to not be my parents, and I’m taking it.
What is "gifted" supposed to mean? Money? Career path? Not being sarcastic, but reading through the majority of comments is much more sad than any kind of gifted. What does being a CxO really mean when all your fundamentals are messed up? I'm afraid what success means to many people.
I would suspect that a lot of the gifted children that didn't turn out okey, aren't all that much on Hacker News.
ACE 2, which seems lower than most here. ADD, only diagnosed in my early 30s (I'm 52 now). I guess I'm OK, if you consider "fairly regular job instability but also fairly high highs" OK... it's certainly more dramatic.
So I guess I'm just here to support the rest of you! hah
Wife is gifted and ACE 8, at age 33 with years of therapy and support she's finally able to go to community college this year and explore a field she's interested in. It takes a long time but it can get better.
ACE 9 - Happy and fulfilling life. Just want nothing tragic to happen, and continue to enjoy a wonderful existence.
6.
I only live because I've failed at killing myself every time I've tried. I just need to wait it out. in the meantime I've got a good job that pays for shelter/food/entertainment. I have no ambition, no real drive towards anything. just serving out my time.
I believe an ACE between 2 to 5 will be standard among most non-Western people with regular childhoods. Corporal punishment was (and is, to a large extent) a very common part of disciplining and raising your child in Asia, ME and Africa.
ACE 4.
I passed gifted school entrance exam in my home country of Iran when I was a kid. Didn't tell my parents because I didn't like going there and I wanted to have a normal life.
I currently work at Microsoft and have a PhD in Computer Science / Compilers.
The worst thing is not failing. Could have excuses to justify a bad life due to family, poverty, violence, war, decadence, health or whatever but nothing worked. Always float back up with success, somehow.
You have a brain, it solves problems without your permission.
> My biggest concern with my quality of life is I don’t feel safe
Not gifted in anyway. But check my profile and follow the link, to see if what I have written catches your attention.
(p.s: I won't bother with my ACE score - seems like an indulgence in self pity )
I have an ACE score of 6. I vastly benefit from trauma therapy: EMDR, IoPT (constellations), hypnotherapy, somatic experiencing, nonviolent communication. It helped me get out of most of my previous addictions, and I do not need to take any medication. I consider myself to be quite happy, and was able to build secure attachments and bonds.
Which was most helpful? Or if you can't pick one then what were the best two?
ACE 5. (I have some questions regarding the simple yes/no but never mind for now).
Suffered from severe depression in the past.
Got treatment, worked hard. I have a good and happy life now. Own my home, have good savings.
Relationships of any kind are still difficult sometimes.
ACE 8. I didn't know this was a thing and took a test which accurately described my entire childhood with every question.
I don't know where to go from here? I want the daily pain to stop.
Hi there, I would start with looking up complex trauma and looking for a therapist in your area who specializes in EMDR and parts work for complex trauma (I'm a therapist myself). The book The Body Keeps the Score provides a ton of information and good tips/strategies as well. Lots of luck and healing is possible.
I got 5, was annoyed it only asked about mothers being hit, when it was my mother doing the hitting, learned how to take a punch from her... ...but anyway, turned out alright I think.
I mean, one rather disastrous marriage, but I've got full custody of my amazing kids.
And yeah, I'm the same, don't feel accomplished but reality is I'm doing financially better than most people in my country.
I am currently working on undoing a lifetime of negativity towards myself, left home at 15, never graduated from high school, never got a degree, but have managed to take some computer science papers via correspondence. (Diagnosed with ADHD at 40, but obviously had it as a kid, my mother preferred a pseudo-science approach, which didn't work)
You’ve accomplished something to be proud of. I am in the same place, working on dealing with a lot of negativity towards myself. I hope you find your way out of it too. Best of luck!
Yeah, I wouldn't take the score too seriously. Nothing about various types of abuse beyond some random measures. I think it's just a quick heuristic, nothing scientific.
I would be wary of drawing conclusions from this cohort you are questioning on hacker news.
It almost certainly holds only a small portion of the individuals from rough childhood backgrounds.
And don't forget that a number suffering the most will have taken the 'ultimate opt-out' from this forum.
I get what you’re saying, but knowing other people had similar experiences and found some measure of life satisfaction is helpful to me, and I hope it’s also helpful to someone else.
ACE of 1, but I grew up in a poor gang infested neighborhood and experienced many of the things in this list from other children in the neighborhood and school rather than family, and it definitely affected me.
How smart are you really if you're going to let society's idea of "gifted" hang over you?
Yes, that's an important point, and so does many society's idea of what constitutes: 'successful', 'leadership' and many other things.
Society = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2xlQaimsGg
Highly gifted here (ACE 7), skipped two grades. Burnt out young before career really took off. Still did well enough to be comfortable - worked in research for a while. Spent decades trying to find answers from doctors who were all useless. Found out much later it’s ME/CFS from hEDS (TNXB) and it’s a lot more frequent that people realize, especially in cohorts selected for intelligence. When I was young I was warned by the gifted program coordinators that skipping multiple grades was bad for kids because they always burnt out, I think they noticed a direct link between the extent of giftedness and the likelihood of burnout but missed the causation.
So I agree there is a strong link between such household behaviors and giftedness but it’s because genetic predisposition to anxiety issues, dopamine disregulation, chronic fatigue in a world that can’t identify it or manage it. So these people get sick and not only can’t get help but the whole world gaslights them. I don’t blame my parents for who they are. And as tough as it has been for me I wouldn’t trade it back for my IQ especially in an era where intelligence is at such a premium. I just try to get the message out in the hope that it helps others, hence posts like this.
Can’t respond to dead account, but read about on HN and then got DNA tested to confirm. It’s one of the main genes in the RCCX theory of giftedness.
>> Found out much later it’s ME/CFS from hEDS (TNXB)
What led to you finding out about TNXB?
I just got a 6 on the ACE test you linked.
I lost interest in formal education and ended up having a baby and dropping out, then going back to study psychology as the foundation stuff covers child psychology and development a lot. I found a combination of this and being mindful not to repeat the mistakes of my parent(s) really helped raising the kids incredibly easy. We were never going to be rich, but we were happy.
I got into health and fitness, which I always considered lame, because my dad died from being unhealthy and unfit and didn't want to inflict that pain on my own baby. It helped me think clearer and faster and made me feel safe, confident and I became quite extroverted. I felt that this and reading a good chunk of philosophical literature in my spare time really "fixed" a lot of mental health issues I had. I've spent most of my life working jobs around my lifestyle, even if it means having less money, I seem to be pretty good at living off a small amount of money and not living in misery even with the family, I have more in savings and investments than people I met that work 2-3x more than me. I work less hours so I get more time to read, create, be with family, get exercise and sun, meet friends, prepare meals, work on community projects etc.
Maybe it's a cope for being constantly told that I'm going to "go far" and being too lazy, distracted or disinterested in doing it (I wince every time someone praises my intelligence) but I'm happy that I have the freedom and opportunities to always be improving myself and trying new things, my only complaint is that life is too short for me to possibly indulge in everything that interests me.
I got a 6.
My university scholarships were based on a few factors including my area code / postal code being considered as “deprived” meaning high crime, low income and low education attainment.
I personally don’t have any issues (I don’t think).
I think you have to grow up a bit. There's more to life than the rat race, and if you score high, you should be participating in the direction of life. Not just follow the crumbs laid down by others. Or chose their side.
You're not a rat, and it helps other people if you don't act like one scared little mouse. Especially if you got decent brains. It's hurts them morally when they have to compete with you when they should have an ally.
Yeah, there is so much pressure to just stop living (and follow the crumbs), and there's no way to achieve anything of worth outside of it. No friends for example, supposedly. As we all are trapped, and we do it to ourselves, self apply the Matrix and tragically be the enemy of our loving destiny.
Those who realize they are trapped have traditionally, and wisely, kneeled to Christ, and have typically been rewarded with a new life. Amen. But if you have decent brains you might also compassionately reason a way out, or identify those that have done so, and join their quest.
Stop living your life as if it's just you. It's not. The rat race lies about you. And the collective lies about you. Grow a spine. These are the facts of life. And as Christianity fades they get pushed into our faces. We have to deal with a self serving collective, that makes us into enemies. Especially us in the software realm mindlessly masturbate to our own bank accounts, while we know better, and that political future needs us. Instead we mindlessly empower ever bigger titans. Karma will come round.
Yes this alternative future needs a business model, to take care of the individuals that are currently starved out of resistance, including by you, and out of their potential to be the good they know they can be.
While there is no business, you still have an excuse. But once it exists, in it you'll be working to empower the ones on your side, fully and completely sharing your life. Our beautiful but deficient society demands it is so extreme, for it itself is a tangent.
Therefore the king shall work his way up, and be compassionate. And as he rises the powers that be will see an enemy, and will fight with fud. And all what their profits can buy. But they will also see a prophecy taking aim at them. The angels in high heaven, and their master, which surely do not exist, right?
Do what is right and the future will come to you.
ACE 4, AuDHD - not very satisfied with life until very recently at 49. Diagnosed autistic at 42, and with adhd at 47.
Horribly, lol. I think 6-7 out of 10? I have no idea what these classifications mean though.
ACE 10, currently in my late 30s. Severe clinical depression and anxiety throughout life, many associated issues around that. Psychopath father, borderline mother. Alcohol and drug issues. Siblings have not fared well and have life outcomes that follow what you would expect. These sort of experiences destroy lives before they begin.
Have faced serious issues with dissociation, and have complex PTSD. Still working on it, it's not a smooth ride but have made progress. Had a lot of issues to work on and have changed significantly over the years. There have been highs and lows.
I've managed to have some success with relationships and life goals in spite of it. With the right support, time, and considerable effort things are improving.
I think a lot of people here have similar experiences. Intelligence is a protective factor that gives you the ability to skip your life script, but it's a difficult journey. The only people I know who suffered severe childhood trauma and recovered are above average intelligence.
Autism, ADHD, and a staggering range of other mental and physical issues have causal links with childhood trauma. For many kids, a diagnosis of ADHD is a nice way of saying "your home environment is abusive and illegal, but saying that is problematic. You live in a hellhole and for some reason can't pay attention. Here's a pill."
ACE score of 8. I'm mildly satisfied, depends on the day.
Similar thing with ADHD, also with sleep apnea (severe, 79 AHI, untreated till final year of college, which made things much better :)). Probably autistic, if you ask anyone close to me, I keep meaning to get evaluated for it (see ADHD).
But yeah, I have done a lot of awesome stuff over the years, despite a lot of my trauma sources remaining into my post childhood years.
Some of those folks have died, others I've since cut off. I am thankful for some close friends who I think of as family.
I've always been an exercise person, which I think is partially to regulate my emotions / depression. It mostly works, but I still take Sertraline for anxiety, which has really changed my life. I wish I had started before I turned 30, but better late than never.
By the way, this book was at least mildly helpful: https://www.amazon.com/Adult-Children-Alcoholics-Janet-Woiti... - Adult Children of Alcoholics.
Only one of my stepdads was alcoholic, but it applies outside of them. If you grew up in a bad home, it'll seem familiar.
I think in terms of the Hierarchy of Needs, I'm still struggling with the love and belonging area. I hope I can reach the upper levels one day.
My ACE score is 2. I am extremely dissatisfied with my life. I wrote hundreds of words in a reply to this post and deleted them because no one cares.
My net worth is whatever. I need to manage money better but frankly bills haven't been a concern for long time. I live within my means and need to invest instead of holding cash.
I have few friends, and when I had a depressive episode a few months ago and told people? They all evaporated.
I'm convenient. Friendly, affable - yes. But not worth much else. Been a hard one for me but I just work now instead. The ROI works out better.
The people that live in my home notice me, and that's about it.
I've felt that way, but I got past it by realizing this is kind of how most people are. It's hard to sustain generosity and compassion over the long term. They want to be that friend who sticks with you through thick and thin, but they've got their own shit to deal. It's not about you, so try not to take it personally. It's the human condition.
How do you know if you're gifted?
"Gifted" is of course a spectrum. You'd know if you were smarter than the average bear if you got put up a class, put into "the smart kids class", or got selected for various leadership programs etc.
Of course not everywhere would have such programs, but there will likely be other tell-tale signs as well.
>How do you know if you're gifted?
When I was growing up, it meant you scored 130 or higher on an IQ test administered by a professional psychologist. For me, I had this administered in 3rd grade. I assume some teacher suggested I get tested.
Seems like it's since been reworked, but before 2014 elementary kids in the US were tested and potentially placed in the GATE Program[1] based on their results.
[1] https://www.cde.ca.gov/sp/gt/
Was school consistently easier for you than it was for your classmates? Was it much easier for you? How about compared to your smartest classmates?
I think the answers to those questions are pretty strong indicators. Fundamentally, though, IMO most people who are gifted know it.
Presumably you get told you're gifted by the education system following some assessment.
Personally, I'd never even heard of the term "gifted" until I left home for university, it wasn't a thing that existed in the rural location where I grew up.
The most quantitative measure is IQ. People like to criticize it but in psychology it is the most empirically verified number that correlates with so many things.
ACE 0, iq 125, never qualified as gifted beyond teachers and others saying "you're smart! you just need to apply yourself!"
Talking with wife and mother about my childhood made me understand that I've had untreated adhd (got diagnosed only recently, in my late 30s, now in the process of seeing if I'm also on the autism spectrum).
Life seen from the outside looks fairly okay, educated, employed, wife, kid, 3 homes, 2 cars, no mortgage.
From the inside: depressed and chaotic, self hatred, lethargic, I can't ever remember wanting to be here, and always finding external reasons to stay, first I didn't want my parents to get sad, now I don't want to fail my wife and kid. But so far, this life has been for others, no myself. I'm not suicidal, I just don't find it particularity thrilling to be alive, it seems like a lot of trouble for very little reward.
So in short, I'm not satisfied with my life, and it's not really depending on external factors, just the way my brain is wired.
I remember in particular an episode where I was 5 or 6 years old and I asked my dad, "why are we even alive? what's the point?" he got mad (I concluded at the time, because he didn't know either, but in retrospect, might have been because it might have sounded like a dark or provocative thing to ask for, but it was an honest question).
I am pretty sure, you can find some activity that brings you joy. Looks like you’re doing financially well and can choose everything between carpentry and private pilot license. Be egoistic and selfish! After getting nice fast car I realized, that I unexpectedly like cars. Next thing is doing a license for a boat. Twin engine motorboat is also very nice.
Aside- why is OP heavily flagged and dead for perfectly substantive and even supportive comments.
ACE 8. Despite a promising start in life, things deteriorated rapidly.
Mother was in and out of mental hospitals during much of teenage years, abusive, narcissistic. Father was alcoholic, absent, frequent bouts of adultery. Eventually they divorced when I was 12. Sent to live with grandparents who didn't want me, very abusive, cruel and neglectful. Changed my opinion on my family during those years.
Father eventually remarried, mother did not. Mother died of suicide at age 58. Step mother also died of suicide at age 48. No relationship with any other family members.
Diagnosed with ADHD, depression and anxiety. Also was born with severe hemophilia and had to deal with all that on top of everything, gay. Despite all that, was able to train myself as a software engineer and have a decent career.
That said, knowing what I know now, if given the choice from the beginning, I would choose not to live this life even if it meant a chance of having a worse life.
ACE 7
Most of my life, until recently, I've suffered from anxiety and anger issues. I've also suffered from depression for several decades, but that luckily ended about 15 years ago. I'm 54 now.
I've changed jobs and careers many times (that's part of our profession, but I also think it's due to my trauma), I'm twice married, I don't really have many friends (although in my older age I'm realizing I like my alone time).
And yet, I am now very satisfied with my life, although this hasn't always been the case. I retired early, I have an amazing wife, and two incredible dogs. The key for me was to work extremely hard on healing myself with therapy (this took years and lots of money), never give up, try different things if something didn't work, and to not be afraid of going out of my comfort zone. Also, having another life that depends on me, like pets, really helped to get me out of focusing on my troubles and also helped to put things into perpective.
This is definitely not for everyone, but it worked for me.
My ACE score is 7, but I don't feel like that for 2 reasons:
1. there are some questions that technically I should answer "Yes", but is of milder scale of the spectrum. 2. I occasionally shared my upbringing to other people, and they are all very surprised. Once I shared with a group of "trainee chaplains", the teachers are commenting something like "why I'm describing my experience without the emotion", that is, when I talked about something very sad, I am smiling when saying it out. And they also pointed out that I often are asking "why" when facing different situations. I.e. I tends to become "philosophical".
May be because of my upbringing then, I loved mathematics since I was a kid. I remember myself once said when I was very young, "I love mathematics because it concerns truth, that is independent of our existence, nor the existence of the universe for that matter." In the hindsight, I think it might be some sort of protective mechanism for me to escape from the reality.
But perhaps because of my upbringing, I've taken many detours in life. When I was in secondary school, I have no motivation to study anything, and so my academic results were very bad. Fortunately, I like to read books, and got interested in popular books on math and physics, and also read a lot of computer magazines. That helps me having good grades in those subjects. Eventually I was discovered to be gifted because of physics olympiad. And that changed the course of my life. Had that didn't happen, I'm not sure if I would even got into university, let alone having a PhD.
So in this sense the "gifted" part of your question becomes my ticket to get out of my "hard life".
Unfortunately, life is complicated. First, having a "hard life", I don't have anyone to guide me making good decisions. Like the sort of decisions about making life choices, how to pursue goal in life (or resist the temptation to pursue too many goals), etc. Or work ethics, self-disipline, etc. Raw talent can only help so far, and as I ages I found that while my will can be strong, my body is getting weaker (e.g. can't get too much all nighters anymore.) Finally, I made a fatal mistakes to want to help everyone, including my parents. That puts me into a financial disaster and almost ruined my career and life.
How satisfied am I with my life now? "Thinking" helps. As a christian studying the bible theologically, it does shape my world view in a way I can "let go" and don't dwell in the hardship I had. As a researcher, my "thinking" is my primary value to get a job. A bonus of being a researcher is that I'm far away from home, so that I get much less connected with those negativity back home than in the past, and the change in my wellbeing is noticeable to my wife. Loving "thinking" means I love reading and listening to podcasts, enriching my perspectives in life.
The most fulfilling part of my life is my family, I have a lovely wife, a lovely baby.
Financially we aren't brilliant. But somehow, even as both my wife and I grew up from very poor families, we don't value money too much. I just don't find it motivating to make a ton of money, nor measures my success based on that. (It doesn't mean we don't have financial stress, as supporting a family of 3 including a baby in the UK is quite harsh.)
I feel that your life is getting better, but not to the point you felt satisfied yet. I hope you'll find your satisfaction, and meanwhile, don't worry too much. You have seen many hardships. You're tough and you can handle it when it comes. Don't dwell too much on those that may come though. Good luck!
Very uplifting read, thanks for sharing. God be with you and your family.
I drove myself too hard, survived 3 cardiac arrests, no longer interested in sacrificing my health, sleep, food, hobby time, mental health, and time spent with loved ones, and finding it extremely, extremely hard to find exciting opportunities that are compatible with this lifestyle.
I want to work on things I love working on, but 40 hours a week. I want to sleep 8 hours a day, cook 80% of my meals, and spend time in nature exercising. I also want to take 4-6 weeks of vacation a year and learn about other people and cultures. The whole "it doesn't feel like work" thing that every single silicon valley founder who works 100 hours/week parade around is fucking annoying. It's annoying because I used to be egged on to be that person, and I almost died. Stop virtue signalling. (a) You will die early (b) You an ass to your family and you aren't even there for them while you're still alive
ACE 9 Didn't know, Now I do. This tracks.
I don’t have anything fashionable like ADHD or Autism or Dyslexia but I do have something you’ve never heard of
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypy
Which doesn’t have an autism-industrial complex or addictive pill mill complex behind it which is why you’ve never heard of it.
I got numerous psych evals that always missed it, the first was before STPD (highly flawed, missing at least 1/3 of the phenomenon including the one that looks like ‘ADHD’) was added to the DSM. Maxxed all sub scales in the Weschler IQ test except for problem solving where I was just one SD over the mean (my brain shorting out caused that). I’m terrible at chess but got really good at math in college despite never being able to score better than 90% on a math quiz in high school. (got a PhD in theoretical physics). My verbal intelligence is too high to measure because I’ve maxxed every test I’ve tried. As a kid I would go to the YMCA every Saturday for gym and swim and then check out 10 books from the public library and more or less I do that today.
I’m an arch reductionist and don’t believe in any of it but I am great with crystal balls, dowsing rods and ouija boards. Knowing what I know now I should have been an onmyoji. Somehow I can’t form a ‘whole’ the way other people though but I can hold two contradictory systems inside myself simultaneously. I can be a bridge between two groups for a while but eventually it goes bad.
Got bullied as a kid, graduated from elementary school the same way Ender Wiggin did. No complaints about parents but they were working class and had no idea how to help me in professional life, couldn’t afford to get me more than one year in a private school. (Where the bullying stopped) Got a lot of great opportunities, blew many of them.
Been with the same woman for 30 years, had a child, had steady work except for the times I didn’t. My rank in terms of ‘living in a beautiful place’ is probably better than my karma rank on HN. My wealth is probably better than the median for my cohort but I haven’t ’made it big’.
I still do strange off putting things that drive some people away (always failed at trying to have an affair); I understand a lot know about the how and why but it is very hard to stop. When my condition is inflamed I have paranoid ideation towards physical objects (I was waving my arms around but it sure seemed I was attacked by the potted plant I knocked down) or family (why the hell is my wife standing where my pills are and why did she move right to the sink after I got them?)
There is very little clinical data on my condition, I’m a bit afraid I’ll get really mean and psychotic if I develop dementia.
I am sure some of you who think you have ADHD and/or autism have it too.
You sound like someone I’d love to have a beer with, cheers! I am glad you were able to overcome bad stuff in life and feel overall okay!
I know it may not necessarily be correct, but my self-performed assessments from online quizzes of Schizotypal disorder are negative or minimal. It’s good to have information about such conditions, regardless.
I only got a 3, I've had an easy life material-wise but still managed to be depressed or something. I think I'm probably pretty autistic. I'm on ADHD meds and they do something but not enough.
I have trouble connecting "I'm looking forward to this" with "I'm enjoying this" with "I remember enjoying that".
Seems like a lot of times I just don't remember positive things, or I don't feel good about positive things that have happened, or I can't comprehend that I'll be happy when I'm feeling down, which is a lot.
I don't deal with romantic feelings or attachment in a healthy way.
You know, the usual shit.
Score of 6. Started and sold a YC startup
I have a pretty clear idea of how and why my childhood was the way it was. I could stretch and analog my lived experiences to fit the questions.
Gifted has been bullshit in the water where I swim for a long time. Invisible. Dissolved. Gifted was a reason to be othered. Formally. Informally. By institutions, neighbors, family.
The ACE questions were useful to me this morning. As a starting point. I’d forgotten how being labeled gifted actually felt. Worse things have happened to other people. I am not competing. Good luck.
Tolstoy, "Anna Karenina" (1873)
More relevant to my comment,the anna karenina principle:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Karenina_principle
This is the first I've ever heard of the principle: excellent stuff.
I first heard the idea in a video where Thiel used the quote. I think it was a YC Dtartup School video on YouTube.
Here the quote for the principle hewed closer to the subject than ordinarily. Tolstoy’s “cheery white crosses” probably deserves its own principle too.
Maybe it's time for me to reread the book.
For me, it will remain a book I can talk about not one I’ve read. Solzhenitsyn is the extent of my Russian literature.
ACE score of 8.
Doing pretty well as an adult.
I'm not autistic and my family was more emotionally neglectful than anything else, but I had a miserable childhood nonetheless. I was a child prodigy who could read aloud by two and a half, I was studied by pediatric developmental psychologists, etc. IQ of 185 at last check, which was 30 years ago.
Unfortunately, I either inherited type two bipolar depression or it's just what happens when you're very smart and see the world as it is. It has undermined me my entire life. But I also have zero competitive streak and I find material ambition embarrassing. So I've never been particularly financially successful.
Been a coder and writer my entire adult life. Started writing professionally when I was 18, had a column in an alt weekly in a major city before I was 23 and was Pulitzer nominated when I was 25. At the same time I was first a web designer and then a dev. I've worked for a few promising startups but they always did what most startups do. In retrospect, I was already burned out by the mid-2000s but I kept going because I thought I'd either get rich or find something worth my time.
Had a heart attack at 38 and another at 42 that nearly killed me. Had a triple bypass and moved to England to marry my girlfriend. Now I've got heart failure and spinal problems from a lifetime hunched over a computer and all the health problems you get from a lifetime of being a freelancer or contractor without insurance.
But I've lived an amazing life so far. I've traveled, partied, been witness to history, done what I wanted to do and followed my heart and will. I've done some good things for the world, I think. Now I'm writing a new social network app to fix the problems with the existing ones, working on a book about how to survive climate collapse if you're not a billionaire, and writing the best music I've ever written.
You won't make yourself feel safe by getting rich or powerful. You'll feel safe when you've surrounded yourself with people you love and trust. That's all. It has nothing to do with success or ambition. However you find that, whatever it takes, make that your ambition. And to use whatever the universe gave you to make things less hard on you and everyone you can.
If you're as bright as you seem to be, other people probably seem stupid. Maybe they are. But that doesn't make them any less human or any less important than you, and if you can see ways to make life kinder for them, do it and you'll never regret it. Everything else is just ego and self-reinforcement to drown out the things in your head that tell you you're not good enough or living up to your potential. Fuck that.
If you try as hard as you can to make the world a kinder place than you found it, you've won. That's all you can do. That's the only real wisdom I've ever found. We are born falling from birth to death, and all we can choose is how we use our time in the air: we can enjoy the rush of the air in our ears and the view, we can try to make sure everybody falling around us has their parachute open, or we can open ours without a thought for anyone else and still fall...alone.
I hope that helps.
Never heard of Ace but in grade 3 iq of 137 in south africa
im not satisfied honestly
still feel like im in my 20s
ACE 3 (but that feels one too high). I consider myself to have had a good childhood with loving parents. My father never had a relationship with his father. I think that abandonment is a factor in some of the emotional dysregulation issues he's dealt with throughout his life. I'm the oldest and, when I was really young, he also had some issues with drugs and alcohol that were basically dealt with by the time my siblings came along.
I was identified as gifted in 1st grade. It got to a point where I was teaching myself and working from 3rd and 4th grade textbooks in class, so the school basically told my parents I either needed to skip grades or go somewhere that would allow me to work at an accelerated pace because "otherwise, he's going to get frustrated and end up hating school." Parents moved me to a private school that taught in kind of an alternative style. The closest thing I can approximate it to is somewhat Montessori style. Starting in 1st grade, I basically sat in a cubicle and self-taught myself every subject. I had a minimum amount of course work to complete for each subject each day, and I was also in charge of grading my own work. If you got your work done, you graded and corrected your work accurately, and didn't get in trouble for anything else, then they had a "privileges" system that basically allowed you to play board games or, at times, wander the school grounds to do things like shoot baskets. I remember days where my school work took maybe an hour total. When I was in 9th grade, that school moved to a more traditional high school class setup, which was pretty boring for me. I'd been so far ahead before the change though that it allowed me to take a couple honors courses at the local university 1st semester of senior year and then graduate a semester early, where I spent that semester interning on Capitol Hill.
Growing up, I always did really well on standardized testing. I'd think I did terrible if I scored below the 97th percentile. For the college entrance exams, I scored National Merit Scholar level. In college, I tested at 137 and 142 (different IQ tests, don't recall which two).
Because the private school was small and "unaccredited" at the time, I suspect that led me to miss out on potential opportunities at more exclusive universities. Instead, I ended up attending a large state university (still a decent school). There, I had to teach myself how to study (never needed to before) and learn to balance attendance (for a subset of classes, I could skip lectures and still score highly on tests, but that sometimes bit me because I'd get dinged for missed attendance). Around junior year, I was officially diagnosed with ADHD.
I've spent my career working in the technology side of consulting. I'd classify myself as "somewhat satisfied" with my life. Career-wise, I've consciously made some decisions that I knew would potentially slow my career advancement in the interest of my family and trying to have a more sustainable work/life balance.
I'll be honest, I don't feel like my brain is put to great use most of the time. (Counterintuitively, that seems to get somewhat worse the more I advance.) I stay working in the field mainly because the nature of the work brings change and new challenges (new clients, new problems, etc.) and because I highly value working with intelligent people (and I'd put most of my coworkers in that category). Once in a while, something comes along that really allows me to leverage my natural strengths and shine. Between, I can get very bored and almost go on autopilot at times (some of that is the ADHD). Or I'm been viewed as performing well, but know deep down that I am only doing a fraction of what I am capable of. I constantly battle my ADHD tendencies.
I've had to adapt over the years in many ways. With the way I grew up, I'm very self-sufficient, so it took concerted effort to learn to delegate. In general, I had to learn patience. I think I was an okay manager but getting better at both of those things made me much better on the management side of things.
The rest of the "somewhat" response stems mostly to some marriage challenges over the past few years. That's another story but some of what I've described plays a small role there. Ex: it can wear on a partner when the other partner has a strong memory and is usually right, or when you the other partner is several steps ahead of the other when thinking something through, even when it isn't a competitive thing and you are just trying to get to the best or most accurate answer.
ACE score of 4 though I think it should be 5 or higher as I lost both parents, at separate times, before I turned 18. If one parent is a single point...both parents should be scored significantly higher.
IQ in the 140-160 range (depending on the time and test), in gifted/honors/AP programs all throughout school and college.
Youngest child of a large Brady-bunch style family (6+ siblings, all half). I was the golden child, the spoiled one. The one that got their own room when everyone else had to share.
Many of my brothers and sisters had rough teenage years and some of that flowed down to me. I saw fights with brothers/sisters, between each other and my parents. Some getting physically violent.
Around 8-11 years old I was initiated into sexual play with older male, teen family(not my siblings), no adults ever touched me. Being too young to understand that was wrong, I then passed the abuse down to many other family members younger than me. It was never forced, but wrong none the less. The older ones knew better. I should have known better. The younger ones did not know any better. As far as I know they do not struggle with anything related to that now.
Father was mostly working and minimally available until I lost my mother at age 11. He went to a dark place after that and was unable to care for me, so I lived with other family. Some moderate physical abuse happened then but nothing significant.
During this time of minimal supervision I discovered the internet and porn, and became obsessed with it. It quickly devolved into consuming illegal material.
My father eventually recovered and I went back to live with him, but the seed was already planted. I've continued those bad habits throughout the majority of my life. I used to struggle with it, hating myself for it. But have come to terms with it now. It is who I am and it's not going to change.
I lost my father at 15, which was far more devastating to me emotionally than my mother (at least based on my present memory). I had grown very close to him after losing my mother and truly a piece of my heart was ripped out and is still gone to this day 15+ years later. I miss my mother, but that pales in comparison to my yearning for the time I missed out on with my father. I wish every single day of my life that he were still here. I dream about him, I can't listen to the kind of music my parents listen to. I can't go to the type of churches they went to. Any of those things just wreck my ability to cope and maintain composure. I miss him dearly.
After losing him, I lived with some family that took decent care of me after that, no real abuse but also very limited supervision especially of my online activities.
I was essentially kicked out after graduating high school and sent to live alone at the house I grew up in. I was left with a small inheritance which I was given full access to at that time, and it was gone within 2 years. I spent the next 10 years with little to no money though I did have a place to live. It was poorly maintained and became less and less safe, but kept me mostly dry.
I got in trouble during that time for my online activities (possession of CSAM) but managed to avoid prison time. I still struggle with it today but have come to peace with the attractions just being a fact of life. I have not touched any child in any inappropriate manner since I was in my early teens and will not ever again.
I am relatively successful now by most measures. I met a woman, who is now my wife, who drove me to improve myself. We now have two amazing children. Our combined income puts us in the top 5% of the US overall but we still struggle with impulse buying and living within our means. We make plenty of money but it seems we never have any to spare. We have no real assets other than our $1M house that is about 70% financed and some very small (<$100k) retirements accounts.
I'm very happy now other than the financial struggles. My wife is amazing, I cherish our kids and they are doing very well. We have strong family ties and see them often. Her parents are involved with the children, as well as some of my siblings play a grandparent role. We mostly beat the tough times and are all doing decent, financially I am doing the best out of everyone.
So like you, I would be viewed as accomplished by many, but still struggle daily. The only thing that I truly live in fear of is that something will take me away from my children and family(death or legal). A car accident. Work accident. Health issue. Some skeleton from my past rising to the surface and causing legal problems. I'm trying my best to ensure that doesn't happen, that my kids don't grow up without a father. But it is a daily fear.
Late 30's, ACE 6 (I basically had a sociopathic, druggy, gambling step father who has a talent for making others' lives miserable. My house chores included watering the weed plants).
Although parts of my childhood weren't the best, I actually had many good things in my life growing up as well. My mother and father are very caring people, and I was involved in many extra curricular activities (music, sports etc). I went to university, got a CS degree, Masters and have gone on to have a decent professional career.
It's been emotionally difficult at times. I learnt some years ago that my dad was a functioning meth addict, and I felt a bit like I was leading a double life at times - when I'd go home to visit, and was literally at his then gf's house where she was dealing... my dad would be shining a torch on some rocks, asking me if I could see what he could. I'd then head back to where I was living and get back to my software job. My dad was very sick for a while and was given a few months to live. Luckily he's still around. Another emotional strain are alcohol issues across my family.
As I'm getting older, I'm trying to let go, to be supportive of family members while realizing that I can't control their lives. They have to come to the conclusions they need to, and they need to want to live differently.
I do my best to look after myself (I've always had to do that!), to stay fit and healthy, and to grow personally. I am not my parents, nor am I the surroundings that I grew up in. If I blame them for the bad, I also must blame them for the good, and for the unique perspective they've given me.
One thing that has helped, has to have been around other high performing people - in many different aspects of life (academically, financially, sports, music etc). Martial arts has given me a lot of confidence as well.
Otherwise, I'm usually very much future focused. I try to stay positive, to keep things light-hearted and help others out when I can.
ACE of 6. Only child, divorced parents. Family of engineers and scientists, third generation programmer, started with QBasic at 7 in 95. Won some math and programming competitions, changed schools two times, ended up in the best math high school of the country. Played cello, didn't know how to talk to people and have friends until high school. Went to uni for bioinformatics.
Dropped out, went to gamedev, in general spent a lot of 20s in random search. Found a startup at 22 and got funding, it was first failure out of many. Moved countries, married, divorced, went to therapy, moved countries again and again. Played in a band, played as a DJ, tried a lot of things. Sold all of my mined Bitcoin in 2012.
Now I'm a senior developer, and for the last few years I've been working for american startups remotely outside of the US. It pays fairly well, I love my work and colleagues, and I genuinely think that my work is meaningful and improves other people's lives, even if in a small way.
But at the same time, I'm a semi-forced immigrant (can't really call myself a refugee) with questionable legal status, no significant savings, and questionable career prospects. I don't have legal right to work in the US, which is the only job market that matters. I work as contractor for now, but I'm very anxious about availability of US job market for remote-remote developers such as myself, and about what happens to my career as I get into 40s and 50s. I don't feel safe either, and I despite the fact that I'm comfortable, I feel that I could have achieved more.
I beat myself up about a lot of things. I imagine that if I just kept studying math and CS, I would have won a lot of programming competitions, get really good at fundamental CS, got into Google 10-12 years ago (while it was still the place to be at), probably quickly moved to the US, worked on fundamental hard problems, and in general had a much better career than I have now. I'm still a great programmer and have a better job and compensation than about 90% developers of the world (give or take), of course. Or I could have gone into ML. I toyed with different genetic algorithms back around 2010, and with neural networks too — even before AlexNet. I got very serious about ML around 2014, did the first Coursera course, and if I kept at it, I once again could only imagine where it would have got me in these 10 years.
It is very seducing to look at other people's achievements and think that you could have done the same, if only you made the right choices. But then I think about all of the experiences I had instead. I've met so many people and explored so many different things that life has to offer. I've learned A LOT of things that previous "nerd" would have thought impossible. I learned confidence in confrontation, public speaking and romance, and very lucky in the latter. I've learned a lot about business, art, music, journalism, history and a million of other fields. I've grown as a person, I found people that I like and trust. After years of therapy, I had to admit a lot of baggage that I had to take care of — and did it. And I don't think that these people that I envy had to deal with baggage like that.
It's hard to accept things that you're not, and things that you will never become, and it's easy to take for granted the things you have. I'm an anxious person. I always think of the worst and find a way to feel guilty about every failure, possible or imaginary. But now that I know and accept these flaws in my own thinking, every day I make a conscious effort to correct my attitude the other way. And day after day, it slowly gets better.
TLDR: Struggling due to suicide attempt
Due to neglect, I grew up with facial and foot deformities. I often hid my illnesses for fear of angering my parents. Things improved a bit after they left and I began living with other relatives. One summer however my parents asked me to visit them in a new country but would not allow me to return afterward. For a year or so, they refused to take me to the dentist until a caries destroyed most of the crown of my tooth. I could not bite on that side for almost a decade afterward. They constantly made fun of my body due to my congential conditions and tried to isolate me from other people by telling me that doctors are evil, that I was disgusting and causing those conditions myself. They often pressured me into acting as their accomplice in breaking the law or exploiting others. If their dealings did not work out, they would blame me for being useless (book smart as opposed to street smart), that had it not been for me they would not have been stuck in poverty.
At my school, many teachers believed that smart people were "selling out the country and good for nothing". They harassed me for doing well in class, tried to fail my midterms by misgrading them, accused immigrants like me of "stealing jobs" from local students, tried to steer me away from applying to colleges. Bullies would beat students up, myself included, right in front of the adults because no one around cared. My parents were not willing to be involved with the authorities due to their fake immigration status but still wanted to pretend that moving to the new country was a "correct" decision. They sided with the teachers in saying that I would not be able to handle "real" academic workload and that intelligence is useless or even a liability. They said that as an ugly, defective person I should get used to abuses, because life was never going to be better.
To say the least, I hated almost everything then. Eventually I attempted to take my own life and have been struggling with the medical consequences ever since. I could work only odd jobs, although most of the times now I am no longer suicidal, so at least that's an improvement.
The linked ACE test is from 2015 and probably outdated. *Admitted to a top-5 university globally with scholarship, many signs on the spectrum
I long ago gave up any faith in the "ADHD"/"Autism" religion, which has all the mechanics of a cult, and just decided to live my life without the labels given to our society by Nazi scientists.
It has been a huge relief, and frankly a major deal-breaker with regards to escaping the destructive feedback-loop of self-evaluation/comparison with others. The for-profit "ADHD"/"Autism" industry does not have the individuals' best interests at heart - it does, instead, wish to perpetuate its own culture - which fundamentally boils down to classism and authoritarianism, wrapped in a velvet glove of narcissistic self-loathing.
If this offends you, you're probably in that cult. Just think about it a bit more - in what way does it help you, personally, to evaluate another person and label them with these conditions - does it help you position your own life in such a way that you have a 'relevant' context, or does it fix a handle to that person with which you can further manipulate them? Just stop. Take a deep breath. Nobody in the world is helped by these labels.
>Currently, I look accomplished to people, but I don’t feel accomplished.
See, this is what I'm talking about. To which people do you 'look accomplished'? This kind of navel-gazing is self-destructive.
A cure for this behaviour is to take a long journey to another culture, step outside the total authority of the culture that makes you think this way, and re-evaluate the fundamental mechanics of your life. Your autism or ADHD can be cured with one week in a village, away from the machine, learning to catch and cook your own food, find your own shelter, dig your own latrine. It doesn't matter what 'mental illness' you think you have in comparison to others in your society - everyone needs to eat, sleep and shit - and that feeling of safety you feel you lack is going to be strengthened once you live in a jungle for a while.
In the jungle, "ADHD"/"Autism" are only as relevant as they provide you with food, water, shelter, sleep. Go live in it for a while, even if its just a vacation, and you'll feel much, much better about things. I promise.
(Note: fully expecting to be downvoted into oblivion for this, but it doesn't matter. I've got my next trip to the jungle scheduled already. The only thing I care about is that someone, somewhere out there, also has that jungle trip in their mind, on the horizon. I'm sure some of you will see this before the text fades into the collective, reactive oblivion...)
ACE score of 8. I grew up first generation Mexican American in a bilingual home (I spoke English with my siblings and Spanish with my parents). I'm the youngest of 8 and the only one to go to college; only half of us graduated from high school. I'm 40 now, married, the mother of 2 little girls, and a licensed mental health professional (my husband's in tech and told me about this thread).
I was sexually, physically, verbally, emotionally, and psychologically abused from birth through adulthood, with it slowing when I moved out of my parents’ home and only fully stopping when I went low-contact. I would regularly show up to school with bruises and cuts. As a 6-month-old infant, I was dropped on my head and shattered my skull due to severe neglect. I underwent 12 hours of emergency surgery and have a Grand Canyon of a scar running across my head. My sister tells me doctors said I would likely experience significant developmental delays and not be “normal”. My mother likely meets criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder (Sociopathy), and definitely meets criteria for Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and chronic PTSD with psychosis. My own diagnoses have included Major Depressive Disorder, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and Complex PTSD, and my first therapist was monitoring my symptoms for OCD-primarily for obsessive presentation, since my compulsions were mostly internal/mental.
I was ahead of the curve at math and science growing up, but struggled with reading comprehension and writing, likely due to the TBI and being bilingual. As a result, I wasn’t in the gifted and talented program, but still outperformed my gifted and talented peers in math & science, graduating with high honors. I have a BA in Economics. I worked in finance for 4 years after graduating undergrad and got my trading licenses. I eventually left to join the Peace Corps and picked up two more languages during my service. I then went to grad school for a Masters in Social Work to become a therapist as I wanted to help others on their healing journey.
I’ve struggled off and on with depression, anxiety, and suicidality since I was a teen. I started therapy when I was 24. I was depressed, anxious, dissociated, and miserable despite having done all the things that represented outward success. I had been trying to hold my shit together for three years at that point. My niece had died when I was 21 and that completely broke my history of complex trauma wide open as she was murdered by her mother- my brother’s ex. Even still, it wasn’t until a roommate, seeing me come home crying every day, told me to seek help that I sought out therapy, starting a healing journey that continues to this day. As an adult I still struggle with being hard on myself and self-worth despite being objectively accomplished.
Financially, I’m doing okay. I have my own private practice where I charge more than most in my field at $185 a session. I work very limited hours as my girls are still little, but I’m looking to double my earnings into the low six figures by next year while keeping to my part-time schedule. I don’t function well in a traditional 9-5 job. I still become overwhelmed at times with juggling parenting, my private practice, and my own trauma triggers and history but my mental and emotional health have become more manageable. I noticed a big shift into wellness last year once I went very low contact with my toxic parents and some of my siblings.
I’ve done a ton of EMDR therapy and believe it has helped me and continues to help me transform my endless list of traumas and negative self-beliefs. I don’t struggle with MDD or GAD or suicidality anymore. My main motivation to continue to heal myself has been to not pass down my inter-generational trauma to my beautiful girls. I don’t ever want to hurt them the way my mother hurt me, and I am proud of myself for being a good mother and providing a safe home environment for my girls.
I wish everyone on here all the best. The journey is hard, but healing is possible, one little step at a time.
Much love to all!
ACE score of 5. I turned out badly. Rich, but badly. Just ask any of the data faking cheating scientists I channeled my trauma into exposing who got me kicked out of academia. But that's how I got rich. Money changes everything.
You will never feel safe. You will instead build a life, a portfolio, and a network of friends as a surrogate for feeling safe. And you can trust my words, I'm shadowbanned.
> Just ask any of the data faking cheating scientists I channeled my trauma into exposing who got me kicked out of academia. But that's how I got rich.
I don’t know what you are referring to, but I am curious. Would you explain?
It's the past. I've let go of it as much as I can. But I will always have what if questions about it. But broadly, academia was a dead-end. I should have never gotten a doctorate, it was a waste of time. And I doubly should never have done a post-doc because that's indentured labor. The day I left academia my salary more than tripled my income, an experience many sorts in AI encountered more recently. Unless one is born into wealth, academia is a horrible choice IMO. And too many of the tenured sorts calling the shots are some of the most unethical sorts I've ever met. Ironically, the most ethical team I ever worked with was at a hedge fund likely because it's pretty hard to hide the loss of funds at one. And everything else has been between those two extremes.
I never heard of the ACE score, I just took a quiz and I would score a 6. I am a failure since high school, never went to college and had a period of 12 years of scraping the bottom of the barrel but I got a tech support job through a friend after not touching a computer for 15 years and then retaught myself programming after not doing any since middle school. managed to leverage that into a job at a quant trading firm by luck. I am still a failure but I have used my ability to learn and absorb information to build a stable life. success is always just beyond arms reach but luckily success doesnt matter I am just happy to be alive able to keep learning and making things. and now I have LLMs to help me
You sound successful relative to where you could have ended up.
ACE 3-4. Not very satisfied at all.
I find it hard to call what I went through "trauma" when compared to other situations people have posted - they definitely had it a lot harder than I had. It's hard to not compare your upbringing compared to other and minimize your trauma.
Anxiety, Depression, ADHD. Verbally and occasionally physically abusive father, with an emotionally absent mother and an intellectually/mentally disabled brother. If I had to draw a comparison - it was like being a kid in a family where the parents should have divorced decades ago but stayed together "for the kids".
I never felt comfortable with bringing anything about my life up with either of my parents as they'd fight and argue all the time, and they'd never really _listen_ to me when I had problems. So I absorbed myself in the internet on the computer I was given one Christmas when I was 9 years old. Not a healthy environment for a kid - 4chan, porn, etc. all had their effects on me.
Now I'm looking back through all the arguments, all the fights, all the emotional breakdowns I had, all the gaslighting, all the lies, manipulation tactics, etc. and I can't help but be depressed about it - so many times I passed the guidance councilor's office at school and thought "man, I could just walk in there and say my dad yells at us all the time, and my life could have been much different". So many times I wanted to do things but I was just too scared and didn't have a person in my life to support me.
Personally, I wouldn't say I'm successful - though that's probably because of my lack of motivation. I work remotely for a larger IT firm in eastern Canada and make okay money (Canadian economy taken into consideration), but I struggle so much with pushing myself and goal setting, time management, etc. I was never able to figure out what I really wanted to do because I was living life for my parents and not for me.
I struggle with social situations because I don't feel valued. It's hard for me to make friends (especially when you're in your late 20's early 30's), I feel like everyone has moved on with their lives and I'm still stuck here the way I'll always be - the party's over and I'm standing at the empty bar, getting in the way of the cleaners vacuuming up the floors of confetti for a party I showed up to 10 minutes before it ended.
As I get older I'm coming more and more to terms with the idea that I'll never be in any kind of relationship and/or have kids because of how messed up I am mentally - I push people away from me when they try to get close because I'm horrified of rejection. Biological clock ain't getting any younger either. I never know what to say or how to interpret things in conversation - doc says it's from my inexperience, but part of me wonders if it's a hint of Autism that's undiagnosed.
To avoid this being even more of a somewhat glorified trauma dump - for anybody else reading these situations, if you're suffering from trauma, please get help if possible. I hope there are free or low-cost options wherever you live, whether a phone hotline, support groups, etc.
You don't get to take the easy way out while the rest of us have to stay behind and suffer! ;-) /s